!!!!!!!! SLOW DOWN, NO WAKE SLOW THE F@#% DOWN PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!

[Sean98204]

I was quite concerned today regarding the inconsiderate J@#K A@#ES that are on the Snohomish River.
and this includes River Guides

First lets start out that under Washington State Law it States:
www.boater101.com/Course/documents/WA/WAstatelaws.pdf

"Many local jurisdictions have ordinances that prohibit the operation of a motorboat at a speed in excess of six (6) miles per hour within 100 feet of shore, or a dock, pier, float or anchored or moored vessel, unless taking off or landing a water skier.

When within 100 feet of an area marked as a restricted swimming area or boat access area, vessels shall be operated at the minimum speed necessary to maintain steerageway.

Speed Regulations
When no limits are posted, operate the boat so it will not endanger others. The boat must be able to stop safely within the clear distance ahead. When passing near marinas, fishing areas, swimming areas, a vessel at anchor, or similar places, reduce speed. Skippers are responsible for damage caused by their vessel's wakes. In Washington, speed may be limited by law for certain conditions and areas. Comply with posted regulatory signs.

Actions such as speeding in confined or restricted areas, "buzzing" or "wetting down" others or skiing at prohibited times or in restricted areas can be construed as negligent or reckless operation.

Negligent Operation
Negligent operation is the failure to exercise the degree of care necessary to prevent the endangering of another person or person's property. It can be the result of operator ignorance, carelessness, inattention or indifference.

Negligent operation is committed when a person operates a vessel at such speed or maneuvers a vessel in such a manner as to result in death, serious physical injury or damage to property".

So when Passing Boaters that are Anchored, Trolling, Drifting, Etc. or Passing Docks SLOW DOWN NO WAKE!!!!!!!!
So Please Be Considerate of your fellow fisherman when opperating a boat On any River FYI a river is considered a restricted Water Way.

[sickbayer]

if a stupid wader takes it upon him self to wade into the only bloody channel that is deep enough for my boat well guess what im running right along side him....

[Sean98204]

I was not wading I was in a boat and I have to tell you I had several come with in 5 - 10 feet of mine at full speed or close to it.
I also fish off the Rowing clubs dock at langus park and frequently boats go by leaving a wake that literally washes over the dock. and in one incident the rowing club was attempting to launch one of there boats and it was washed back up onto the dock damn near causing several people to go into the water. Thank God no one was hurt.
The Idiot that caused that problem, his registration number was recorded and reported to the Snohomish County Sheriff's Department Marine Patrol Unit.

All I am trying to say here is lets have a little courtesy out there on the river. All it takes is one little mistake in judgment and someone is going to get hurt. It's not a matter of If but When.

[A9]

You must realize that rivers are a whole different ballgame....

Running a boat on a river (moving water) with a jet is different than running on a lake with a prop... It is often necessary and appropriate for boats with pumps to stay on plane, as it keeps them in control of the boat and they can quickly get past other anchored boats....

Many fisherman prefer boats to quickly zoom past them when they are anchored up in a hole....

[G-Man]

Keep in mind that when your running fast you leave a fairly small wake. What gets my goat is folks who run at maximum wake speed, about 8 to 12 mph, thinking that they are doing everyone else a favor by keeping their speed down. Either slow down to less than 5 mph or gun it and get on by quickly! My pet peeve lately has been wake surfing boats. They really need to be looked at and regulated as they destroy the shoreline and wreak havoc on smaller boats. How many of you know that you are responsible for the damage your wake causes?

Sean, I'm not condoning breaking any laws regarding safety and speed where posted. If you have never run a sled you need to understand that speed is your friend and provides the necessary control and elevation to get through the hairy spots on a river. Granted, on the Snohomish I don't think there are any areas of concern but just expect that when you are fishing near rapids, skinny water and dangerous obstacles your going to get buzzed on occasion.

[Anonymous]

Let me see....... Ground my boat? Douche a wader?....... Sorry! The throttle is your friend.
Anchor your boat next to the channel. Sorry comming through, don't block the navagable waterway.
Get over it. It's life on the river. There is nothing you can do. Getting pissed at everyone is only going to ruin your day.

[Anglinarcher]

I don't know enough about the River to comment on so many issues. I do agree that far too many boats abuse the waterways and other people on it. Some of this is simple ignorance, some of the abuse is intentionally.

First, in a sled, speed is everyones friend. Maneuvering a sled at idol or slow speeds is a joke.

Second, I agree so much with G-Man on the optimal speed to run a boat to minimize a wake. I cannot believe how some idiots think that if they slow down to just below plane speed in their boat they are doing you a favor - but they are in the hole and are pushing more waves and water then at any other time. I won't go so far as to suggest a speed - every boat planes at a different speed, but the smallest waves are just over plane speed or below 5 mph.

Third, I get pretty angry when jet skis and other boaters get their jollys buzzing the boat when you are fishing. I have been in several situations where the jet skis try to crowd your boat on plane to jump your wake. One lost control about 30 years ago and bounced of the bow. Now I am not in favor of loss of life, but I will admit that for a second I was thinking that I would liked to have had a high powered laser gun with me. Why is it that you can be on a lake that is 150 miles long (lake Roosevelt), with many many miles of open water to water ski in, and the water skiers seem to think that the best place is the place you have been fishing in for the past few hours?

I see that I feel the anger that Sean98204 feels, and there are a lot of reasons for Sean to feel this anger.

Nevertheless, the rest of the comments presented by others are generally also correct.

Frankly, I think Sean deserves the right to vent here today, but please, everyone, go away with an open mind and see if there are not points to be taken on both sides here.

[Sean98204]

Well it Happened this morning. Thank God no one was hurt but the Victim lost everything

A boat running at high speed on the Snohomish River caused a Canoe to capsize this morning just upstream of Lowell.
the suspect boat (Unknown Hit and Run) running on plane came close enough to cause a fisherman in a canoe to flip him and failed to stop.
with other boats in the area it is reported that only one stopped fishing and came to the rescue to find the man in the canoe wet and cold but unharmed.

This also bring to my point that there are also rowing teams on the river and I am sure that anyone that has been on the river has seen how narrow these boats are most have a beam of only about 24" max. with the longest of about 25'

Again we need to slow down and I can tell you I have a sled and I do not need to run on plane to control my boat.
Any experienced skipper should be able to control his boat properly at any speed.

[Dave]

Unfortunately in whatever scenario we evaluate concerning this topic, there are going to be many who are in a hurry and even more who are inconsiderate of others. It's an unfortunate fact of life in today's world. As I have gotten older I have found that I am more able to shrug my anger towards these people off a little easier but I wasn't always so tolerant or forgiving.

I'm not sure what a canoe is doing on the river when the operator knows there is going to be a hundred boats on the river as well. Not a very good decision in my opinion. As with Officers in our cities, Troopers on our highways, and Deputies throughout the unincorporated counties of Washington State, there are not near enough WDFW enforcement personnel to catch the majority of boaters who are underway unlawfully or fishing unlawfully which is in and of itself very frustrating but understandable.

I’m not saying the boaters in this scenario are inconsiderate because I know that in a river, the conditions are different. I am saying in general on most of our waterways, a fair number of boaters operate their vessels unlawfully and are inconsiderate, in a hurry, and don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves. It sucks! On a positive note; this morning it was nice to see Everett PD’s boat out on the water in the "no wake" zone of the Everett Marina. They are proactive when they have the chance to be out there which I think is great.

Good topic and discussion.

[Sean98204]

Very true dave but we have to remember that everyone has the right to use the waterways and expect to be safe from other boaters.
When we get behind the controls of boat we take on a tremendous responsibility. Not just for our own safety but for the safety of others around us.
This is my point. there is no reason to fly past other boats like the way alot of people are doing on the rivers.

[Bodofish]

My big question is............. What did the Authorities do when you called them?
Did they show up and take a report? Did you see the helicopters out in a search grid?
My guess is they laughed about it over coffee.

I've been on the river when the fish and game sled went by a full throttle and I can tell you they weren't too concered with their wake.

My suggestion would be, if you're going to be on the river in a canoe you should follow the safety tips outlined in the PDF you wanted everyone to read. All of them. Did you have a tossable floatation device with a line on it for each member of your crew? Next you should also follow the rules for anchorage and don't do it where people are running. Did you follow the suggestion and beach the canoe and check the safety of the area before anchoring?

You are absolutly right. It all boils down to common sence and courtesy.

Just because you can paddle a canoe on a river that has jet sleds running on almost every day of the year doesn't mean you should. It's just not prudent.
Just because you can ride a bicycle on I90 to get over the pass, is it a prudent idea to do so? Should you expect the cars and trucks to slow down for you? I don't think so and I hardly think so. Be realistic about it.
Just because you have a pair of waders doesn't mean you should wade chest deep in a river that has boats running by. Are you willing to drown to make a point?
Do you think it's courtious on your part to impact everyone elses ability to run the river because of the poor choices you've made?
Buy a proper vessel if you want to run the river.

[Gringo Pescador]

Just because you can paddle a canoe on a river that has jet sleds running on almost every day of the year doesn't mean you should. It's just not prudent.
Just because you can ride a bicycle on I90 to get over the pass, is it a prudent idea to do so? Should you expect the cars and trucks to slow down for you? I don't think so and I hardly think so. Be realistic about it.
Just because you have a pair of waders doesn't mean you should wade chest deep in a river that has boats running by. Are you willing to drown to make a point?
Do you think it's courtious on your part to impact everyone elses ability to run the river because of the poor choices you've made?
Buy a proper vessel if you want to run the river.

These are good points - I am a "bankie" and have a canoe and a little pontoon.

In my opinion I would love to get out "on" the river, but my only option is to take my canoe or toon out. What fun it would be to be hooking into a bunch of pinks in a 5' toon! But no matter how eniticing it is, no way would I do it. I don't know what the rules & laws are, but I am not going to take that chance of losing everything (literally).

As far as wading - I wade, but I make sure that when I am out there, I am aware of my surroundings have a sense of where the main lines of "traffic" flow. Like Bodo said - pedestrians may have the legal right of way - but that doesn't mean I can just walk down the middle of Hwy 99.

If someone is walking on the side of the road and a car swerves off the road at or near them, you call the cops and report the driver. BUT if someone is walking in the middle of the lane - you call the cops and report the person, not the cars flying by them. For me the same would go for the river..

This is a sidebar to the subject, but I will also add to this, that if I am casting into "traffic" - I will reel my line in if I see a boat coming too close - the 30 seconds I lose of fishing time is nothing compared to being spooled because an approaching boater can't see my 8# line in his path. And since analogies are fun I would equate this to flying a kite at the end of a runway and getting pissed because a plane stole your kite!

It would be nice if it were a perfect world and all people obeyed all traffic laws (both on the water and off), but it is not, so you have to adjust accordingly.

[Dave]

Very true dave but we have to remember that everyone has the right to use the waterways and expect to be safe from other boaters.
When we get behind the controls of boat we take on a tremendous responsibility. Not just for our own safety but for the safety of others around us.
This is my point. there is no reason to fly past other boats like the way alot of people are doing on the rivers.

I agree completely!

[Dave]

My big question is............. What did the Authorities do when you called them?
Did they show up and take a report? Did you see the helicopters out in a search grid?
My guess is they laughed about it over coffee.

I've been on the river when the fish and game sled went by a full throttle and I can tell you they weren't too concered with their wake.

Thanks for your support................

[Bodofish]

Sorry Dave,
We usually agree on a lot of things but in this case I don't. In lakes and slow moving large bodies of water I'm the most curtious guy you would ever meet. I follow the rules to a T. In fact I used to carry CG First mates card so I know what the rules are and the penalties. Up in a river past the tidal infulence line, all bets are off.
Like I said, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
I used to run a little prop boat in the river and I was the target of everyones angst. No wake but you have to run right through all the deep holes to get anywhere. I had people chucking stuff at me from the bank and people in boats of all sizes casting and throwing stuff at me. At first I got pissed at them, called the cops, was the topic at the water cooler and then I realized it was just ruining "my day" on the water so I just wore a hard hat and a heavy coat. When I was able, I bought a boat that was appropriate for running on the river. A small prop driven boat is no more appropriate for running on the river than a canoe is.
The difference here is we are not talking about boaters buzzing docks or people out for the evening bobbing around and having a bite. We aren't talking about boaters bearing down on waterskiiers or skiiers splashing other folks. Nor are we talking about boaters maliciously going after someone near the beach or out for an evening paddle on the lake. We are talking about someone who has knowingly (yeah it may be a stretch to expect him to think beyond himself.) anchoring an inappropriate craft in a place that endangers himself and safe travel for all the others on the river. You won't see me endangering myself or others by blocking the channel. Yes endangering others. When you anchor a canoe or other carft in the slot and force others traveling the river to take a different and or untried path it's endangering everyone else on the river and the shore. Things happen real fast in running water. It's not like being on a lake or the sound. If the conditions permit, I'll drop down off step and ease by and be happy to do it. If a guy anchors in a bad spot, sorry. Most people would rather I go by at WOT because the wake is quite small from a 10 degree hull.
The other part is it's a known fact that lots of jet sleds run that area of the river so it's not the best idea to be out canoing there. While we're at it, the entire Sky is a bad place to canoe, up above the Wallace flats would be a good place to wade, no powered boats. The Skagit is another place. Poor choice of a place to be in a canoe, if you have no regard for your own safety then hit the frog water, above Wooly, sorry. The Skagit is perticularly bad as it flows a lot of water, ahuge amout of water, even when in the frog water it's dangerous. Rivers are not a good place to canoe period. I know I had a friend die there, in the frog water. His kayak was caught in an eddy and sucked him right down. He came up about hundred yards down stream about thirty minutes after he went down. He was a very experienced white water kayaker. It didn't help.
So yeah, since he's brought all of his troubles on himself, I don't feel sorry for the guy at all. If he had capsized his canoe and all the search and rescue folks were called out to look for his water logged body, would you feel the same way about him canoing on the river? I really doubt it.
If he had been on a lake, I'd have helped hime chase offenders down. There's a whole different set of rules, wheres and why fors when you get into the fast moving water.
One has to look at all the cards, it's not just a guy trying to fish from a canoe. There's a lot more than one hand playing at the table.

[wintersteelhead]

I agree that some go to fast. But the problem is made greater by boats that are to small or over loaded fishing in the middle of of the channel. I get pissed at the guys going by me, but then i realize, I just did the same thing to get to my spot. Fishing for pinks bring out all the knuckle-heads and pleasure boaters that for one month think they are the worlds greatest. Unless this is your first year fishing pinks, you allready know what to expect. Just get over it and fish further up river away from the knuckle -heads and enjoy yourself instead of complaining about what you will never be able to fix.

[saltyseadog]

wish the swede was here to comment on this one i would much rather have a boat go by in plane then throw a huge wake

[G-Man]

He'd just repeat what Bodo and the rest of the more experienced river fisherman have already said, it would just be more cryptic. If you have an issue fishing a river where a motorized boat may buzz you, I suggest you fish rivers that have a motor restriction on them. There is a reason why folks manuever through rivers while on plane, those that don't get weeded out of the gene pool pretty quickly.

[stevoblue]

I wade, river raft, and own a sled. There are many spots on the Snohomish where the channels are skinny, especially during low tide. There seems to be many boats anchored in the middle of the channel leaving little room to pass.
Also, for the waders, generally, the outside bend of a river is the deepest part. If a wader enters the river on the outside bend, wade chest deep, and then cast out several yards for a drift, there is little room left in the channel for a boat to pass. There are two choices. Run right through a fisherman’s drift, or go shallow and give them some room. I usually am unwilling to step off of plane to get through the skinny inside bend. I doubt that the shore fisherman would be willing to stop fishing and help me get unstuck as repayment for my courtesy.
Another quick note on the sleds. Full Speed would be 45-55MPH. I agree that that could be considered a little fast passing an anchored boat 10 feet away or a wader. A good crusing speed to stay on plane would be 25MPH. (At least on my boat) I can see how 25 MPH could be considered full speed by someone sitting on an anchored boat or watching from shore . One more note many sleds now can stop in an instant. I have never measured the distance but it can slam you against your wheel if you’re not careful. They are safer than you might think.

[chasingtherecord]

taking a canoe on the river is like riding your bicycle down I-5. Yes you can do it legally, but why would you want to?