Winter Steelhead 2013/2014

[RiverChromeGS]

Danny you might want to talk with Stan about that, your info is incorrect. Your info is only correct up until the closure and in fact if you where correct the cascade would not have reopened as it did. Think about it, if "A few late fish showed and escapement was barely met" was the case it would NOT have reopened. The fact is they got more fish then needed.....just not until after they had closed it. This is according to Stan and he runs the hatchery so I think he knows what he is talking about. He had predicted this way before the closure but was still willing to take the eggs from the ripe hens I was catching just in case the numbers never showed up.....which they did. Just trying to keep the info correct.

Incorrect info? The numbers are online for us all to see. Look at last winter escapement numbers.. They could get one more than escapement, or 1000 past escapement. Regardless if they meet the numbers they need and cannot take any more fish, the river is immediately reopened. Look online at the total fish escapement taken at the cascade last winter. 198 steelhead entered the cascade hatchery. Yes. That meets escapement... BARELY... In previous years, the cascade would get 600-800 steelhead in the tank. There was no flood of fish last year. 198 is pathetic. Stan is happy when he meets escapement but saying last year was super good fishing later in the season is not true... Especially if the tank got under 200 freakin fish when they plant 201,000 smolt. Thats bad. That means 1/10 of ONE percent of the plant cAme to the hatchery. Again hate to be negative but bottom line is hatchery steelhead the last few years should be on the ESA list, and exactly like last year, we are certainly not going to see a thousand hatchery fish enter any systems on the next high water. Nate should be averaging 5-10 hatch fish a day on the Sky on a normal year. There are virtually no fish

[natetreat]

Between January 3rd and 10th last year we went from 25 fish to 95 fish, and ended the year with 198 escapement. The majority of those fish came in the middle part of January. The Skykomish followed the same sort of pattern. Our weather patterns this year have finally stabilized, we have nice flows, and fish will come. The marblemount hatchery has the worst escapement numbers out of all the hatcheries. According to the WDFW, each one of those returning steelhead costs us more than $350! It's amazing we get as many back as we do, they get an average of like .5% return on the number of smolts they plant. We had a couple of good seasons there in the recent past, but this is normal for our fisheries. Numbers and time. There will be those days when we bank double digits this year, the good days are why we keep at it.

[RiverChromeGS]

Between January 3rd and 10th last year we went from 25 fish to 95 fish, and ended the year with 198 escapement. The majority of those fish came in the middle part of January. The Skykomish followed the same sort of pattern. Our weather patterns this year have finally stabilized, we have nice flows, and fish will come. The marblemount hatchery has the worst escapement numbers out of all the hatcheries. According to the WDFW, each one of those returning steelhead costs us more than $350! It's amazing we get as many back as we do, they get an average of like .5% return on the number of smolts they plant. We had a couple of good seasons there in the recent past, but this is normal for our fisheries. Numbers and time. There will be those days when we bank double digits this year, the good days are why we keep at it.

This is true, however, the TOTAL is still under 200. You remember Nate when 50 steelhead would die at Reiter on a good december rain... They may come late but if we cant even get 200 steel in our hatcheries... Thats terrible. Freakin hatchery turds will be extinct soon! Working your butt of for hatchery fish is stupid. If we cant have some half decent days now and again its a lost cause. My best day this year is freakin three. THREE... Unreal.

[natetreat]

I know, it's really sad. The Skagit saw an escapement of 6,000 natives last year. And it's ESA listed as a threatened species. What does that make our hatchery fish? Nearly extinct. We need new blood in the gene pool, or more smolt planted. It's money and politics, not ocean conditions. You're right, if this trend keeps up, we're going to be saying goodbye to double digit days, and maybe even steelheading as we know it. I'm optimistic though, there will be fish. Our late run fish are worth looking forward to come the end of January, and I love those fishy waters down south! The nooch already has fish counted at the trap, and the Skook has put out some winter steel already. The Snoqualmie has numbers almost equal to those of last year this time, and that's pretty darn good. Gotta work for 'em, which isn't easy, but then when you do get them, you appreciate them that much more. We've had great days, when we found them.

[bigskyx]

"The Skagit saw an escapement of 6,000 natives last year"

Who counts native steelhead on the Skagit? And where?

[natetreat]

They base those numbers from combinations of fish counts, redd counts, smolt traps and other conditions. The federaly government and WDFW are the ones in charge of keeping rack of those numbers. It's about time for this years "Occupy Skagit", it's a big deal with those who would rather have catch and release seasons for native steelhead. You're not going to run into them very often, because when they are in, the rivers shut down.

[RiverChromeGS]

"The Skagit saw an escapement of 6,000 natives last year"

Who counts native steelhead on the Skagit? And where?

Its true, and it was quite a bit over 6000 that returned. However if they open for fishing, it opens for tribal netting as well. Welcome to the definition of a lose lose situation

[bigskyx]

Thanks Guys. I wasn't aware of that. Where does one find that info?

[natetreat]

It's a pain to find any of the info related to escapement online. This is one of the links that will give you a history of escapement numbers -

https://data.wa.gov/Natural-Resources-E ... /fgyz-n3uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

[natetreat]

https://fortress.wa.gov/score/species/p ... ockId=6049" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/plants/steelhead/2012.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://fortress.wa.gov/score/hatcherie ... 20Hatchery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://fortress.wa.gov/dfw/score/score ... =Steelhead" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's really hard to get the up to date data that you're looking for, the government is not known for it's transparency or technological expertise. WDFW has no money for it either, further compounding the problem. Tracking native fish is a big priority though, so those numbers are easily found.

The current runs of hatchery fish and their scarcity are due to management practices and poor genetics among our fish populations. As you noted, last year, the "flood of fish" was indeed not a flood of fish. 198 fish escapement is absolutely nothing. With the smolt plants supposedly returning this year, we have 198,000 smolt planted to the Cascade river. The latest escapement percentages posted for the marblemount hatchery that I could find quickly are from 2009, and they list the escapement of these fish at .29%, which I think is optimistic, I'm not sure where to find up to date information on the hatchery for last year. But it 2009, the skagit was stocked with 500,000 fry, not the measly 228,000 that it got this year, including the Baker River. If we optimistically assume a .26 percent return, we're talking 514 fish coming back, which is the total harvest including commercials, tribal and sport catches and escapement. If we assume a repeat performance of escapement, that's around 300 fish to be caught. With the pressure the system gets, I could imagine that many fish coming out. but that's only ten fish caught throughout the whole system per day of the season, if you just count December and January. That's a stupid low number, considering how many people will be fishing everyday. I doubt even 10 fish per day are being caught in the Skagit, but then again, I haven't been fishing it. I know the Snohomish system is putting out more fish than the Skagit. Hatchery fish are not a priority within WDFW, and the poor performance of the Skagit stock is why I don't fish the Skagit very much, maybe once or twice a year for steelhead. 2 years ago was an anomaly within the current trends.

In my opinion these poor returns are indicative of our management policies, and hatchery production techniques. Sometime in the past we had a disease outbreak throughout some of our facilities, I think that was mainly on the coast though. Bias against hatchery fish, decreasing smolt plants, the decrease in the number of systems planted even in this last ten years have decimated our catch and kill fisheries for steelhead.

All seriousness aside, I'm pretty sure 2 years ago Danny broke 100 fish for his winter season, many of which came from the Skagit, so that means there are 200 fish to be caught on a good year

All that aside, I'm averaging 1-2 fish per trip on the systems I'm fishing, which under the conditions that we've been given is pretty darn good. For fish on the bank, I'd reccomend going elsewhere to put blood in the boat. The terminal fisheries are your best bet, unfortunately, they're putting out more fish than the main rivers, although I haven't been fishing them. At the end of the month, creel surveys on the Bogey put 50 fish to the bank, which is way better than out here. A trip out there would probably take the edge of your steelhead cravings


I don't think that you're absolutely right about a C&R season opening it up for native netting, we're not retaining steelhead. Also, it would be a good opportunity to have WDFW study the mortality rate of native fish.

[BlakeP]

creel surveys on the Bogey put 50 fish to the bank, which is way better than out here. A trip out there would probably take the edge of your steelhead cravings

I wouldn't be too sure of that. A friend of mine was out there yesterday, and said between around 40 guys, he didn't see a single fish landed, and only 2 hooked. Doesn't mean they aren't there, but it seems to me like it's been hit and miss on the Bogachiel. Some days the fish seem to be in, other days not so much. Still pretty slow. Even 50 fish is a bad number for that river. Its doing better than most rivers, yeah, but if it is a long drive for someone, it probably isn't worth going out there right now.

[natetreat]

50 fish in 3 days is phenomenal compared to anything around here, that's fantastic. Many days my boat is the only boat connecting with fish at all out here. For the most part, if you're going to judge whether it's worth fishing based on whether you're guaranteed to catch something, everyone should just stay home right now. Go to work, save up your sick days for when it gets good. It will get good. If you do want to go fishing, and you want to know the best bet, that's probably it. Either that or the Cowlitz. But who like to fish the Cowlitz? You're right, I'm not driving all the way out there to combat fish the hatchery while looking at all the fish that are sitting in the creek not getting caught. It is worth mentioning those 50 fish though.

[BlakeP]

Well yes, 50 fish is not a bad number, but it seems like this last weekend had a good number of fish come in, where as they aren't in good numbers at all this week, I've heard from several people that there was nothing at all these past few days. I'm just saying that the Creel survey numbers are misleading, and that it's different every week. Its a good bet for fish, yes. but all I was saying is that its not really worth say a 3-4 hour drive right now.

[4steelhead]

I guess our expectations on North Puget Sound rivers are unrealistic. Here is a direct quote from WDFW's Weekender Report for January, “Depending on the local conditions on the rivers, fishing for hatchery steelhead should be decent in early January,” said Bob Leland, steelhead program manager for WDFW. 

[RiverChromeGS]

Another new river and a few more wild steelhead.

[natetreat]

Well yes, 50 fish is not a bad number, but it seems like this last weekend had a good number of fish come in, where as they aren't in good numbers at all this week, I've heard from several people that there was nothing at all these past few days. I'm just saying that the Creel survey numbers are misleading, and that it's different every week. Its a good bet for fish, yes. but all I was saying is that its not really worth say a 3-4 hour drive right now.

Heheheh. Maybe everyone should just stay at home then and leave the best fishing to the locals.

[natetreat]

Another new river and a few more wild steelhead.

Preeeeeeeeeetty!

[BlakeP]

Heheheh. Maybe everyone should just stay at home then and leave the best fishing to the locals.

Hahaha

[SteelHedder]

First fish of 2014!

[BlakeP]

Nice fish. A good way to start the year! But still Coho this late? Certainly was an odd year for the coho. They didn't come in thick...well at least not in the areas I fish. But they were around for longer than I have ever seen.