Can we all just get along please?

[Misselley]

I would like to first say that this post is by no means pointing fingers or laying blame on any individual, forum, group, or club. I also apologize if anything I say offends anyone.

I think I can safely say that we all joined this site for similar reasons. To be able to promote and preserve our great Washington fisheries and to support each other and share knowledge in order to become better fishermen and women should be all our common goals. Somewhere this has been lost to posturing, chest beating and p*ssing contests (again I apologize if I offend anyone).

I believe in the site to the extent my company sponsors the freshwater forum. In no way do I believe this gives me the right to censor or moderate any individual or club that wishes to post in that forum. I simply do not have that right because I am a sponsor. All are welcome and there is plenty of room for all opinions. I would like to tip my fishing hat to Mike and Aaron for how they have tried to deal with these issues. You both have a thankless job right now that I do not envy. You are doing a good job of trying to keep this runaway train on the tracks. You will continue to have my personal support and sponsorship.

Unfortunately because of all the bickering I have decided that if it continues I will no longer log on and waste time reading peoples tirades and name calling. I also will not personally post, reply or support any thread that does not positively support the individuals, clubs or forums that have previously posted. I refuse to be an enabler in these fights. Like I tell the kids I teach, play nice and treat each other with respect and we will all be better people. I hope others will follow my example and maybe we can work together to get this forum back to doing the good it was intended for.

Thank you to all that have read my post with an open mind.

Sincerely

[Riverman]

You know, maybe I missed something but I see very little bickering on this forum compared to the many others that I frequent.

Jed V.

[Misselley]

I believe a lot of posts have been removed. So unless you were watching them unfold you may have missed them.

[racfish]

Hmmmmm Glad I missed all this. I never saw or read anything that was to be considered bickering.

[ryan2202]

Sounds like this post is a "bicker" in itself...We all love fishing, we all want to be successful fishing, and this site provides a lot of great advise, details, and helpful hints on how to fish ANY type of fish you want too or are targeting. I'm greatful to this site as a fisherman, as I've learned so much and have gained a few friends...sorry if you have to leave, but it isn't intolerable, and no matter where you go, "bickering" is always present, whether at home, work, fishing, EVERYWHERE! I've seen a few...laughed them off and chose not to participate...I think this site has GREAT people the monitor and delete and/or notify those that are stepping beyond their boundaries. Hope you keep visiting and posting little notes here and there, hate to see a fellow angler take off over something so petty...

[swedefish4life1]

Group hugs to all:cheers: even haters chase your passions and never close the door on the information/education Hotline:study: It may increase your shoulders and arms:chef:

Fish on!!!!

Be all you can be:thumleft:

[Anglinarcher]

There will always be bickering, especially on the INTERNET where there is a sense of being anonymous. Still, I don't think we should have as much, but it is not going away either.

Some of the discontent is caused by our, Washington State Fishing Rules, difficult to understand rules. They are hard to understand, hard to follow, and frankly, I suspect we all break some of the rules, each and every time we go out, but we don't know that we are. So, we then report what we did on this site, and half will think we are evil, and have will think we did right, and the truth is that both haves are partly correct.

Part of the discontent is caused by normal opinions. For example consider the Muskie problem. Yes, you read it right, PROBLEM. For example, we all want the biggest fish we can catch, a top of the line predator, but Pike and Muskie are not native to our area. So, to help control some non-native "trash" fish, the state brought in a sterile hybrid, the Tiger Muskie. Great fish, love to catch them, but here is the rub. The are expensive to plant, the native species have no defense against them, so they can wand will devastate a lake if they are not limited. BUT WE ALL WANT TO CATCH them, so we have huge pressure on a limited quantity. This means that the desire to catch, and keep a fish of a life time (40" fish is a fish of a life time) conflicts with the desire to keep the fish in the system and perhaps allow them to get to world class size (50+"). Muskies, and Pike, will always cause bickering.

Additionally, we all want to read fish reports, to see what is going on, but we don't want to give out our secrets. Some will find our reports offensive if we give too much information about THERE spot, while some feel we are not giving out enough information. This is human nature, to be expected, and to be enjoyed to a large extent.

Lastly, Riverman is dead on. I also frequent the archery side of my anglingarcher name. I go by Archersteve on Archerytalk.com, and trust me, the bickering and name calling is a constant issue. That site is far larger then this site, world wide, and they have many many moderators, but still, how do we foster a free exchange of ideas if we limit too much of what is said. I have been put down by archers that could not win a tournament if they were the only one there, and praised by Professionals that win every tournament they are in. In short, I have broad shoulders, thick skin, and laugh off both praise and put-downs. It is the nature of any web site that there will be some bickering, those that chose to join in should be welcome, and those that chose to watch from the sidelines should also be allowed. Only when slander starts should the moderators step in - at least IMHO.

[tommytitan08]

I agree that there's always gonna be bickering but there are ways to correct people. Such as when a fisherman/woman posted that they broke a law and didn't know it. Don't threaten as i've personally seen in some posts. Theres no need to post that you're going to call the fishcops and so forth. This forum/site is for an educational tool not a crucifiction of someones ego, or fishing habits. We as humans don't have the right to judge someone else because they made a mistake. We're all imperfect and make mistakes. Let's all get along and teach each other.

[Anglinarcher]

I agree that there's always gonna be bickering but there are ways to correct people. Such as when a fisherman/woman posted that they broke a law and didn't know it. Don't threaten as i've personally seen in some posts. Theres no need to post that you're going to call the fishcops and so forth. This forum/site is for an educational tool not a crucifiction of someones ego, or fishing habits. We as humans don't have the right to judge someone else because they made a mistake. We're all imperfect and make mistakes. Let's all get along and teach each other.

Agreeded, but don't let your nerves come unglued if someone wants to hammer you. Most of us will come to your defense if needed.

[Don Wittenberger]

they can wand will devastate a lake if they are not limited.

Anglin, I hope you won't take this as bickering but I take issue with this statement. One of the things we try to do on this board is educate the general public about muskies, and dispel the popular misconceptions that turn some people against muskies. For example, in Minnesota, state biologists who want to expand muskie stocking are encountering resistance from lakefront homeowners who think the muskies would wipe the other fish in their lakes. This simply isn't true. Most of the midwest's top muskie lakes also have thriving populations of walleyes, bass, crappie, etc. Nature finds its own balance between predators and prey. Tiger muskies don't even wipe out the squawfish, their preferred prey, and WDFW doesn't justify tiger muskie stocking in terms of rough fish control anymore; nowadays it's considered a "warmwater enhancement" program to benefit sport anglers.

[mtsiview]

they can wand will devastate a lake if they are not limited.

Anglin, I hope you won't take this as bickering but I take issue with this statement. One of the things we try to do on this board is educate the general public about muskies, and dispel the popular misconceptions that turn some people against muskies. For example, in Minnesota, state biologists who want to expand muskie stocking are encountering resistance from lakefront homeowners who think the muskies would wipe the other fish in their lakes. This simply isn't true. Most of the midwest's top muskie lakes also have thriving populations of walleyes, bass, crappie, etc. Nature finds its own balance between predators and prey. Tiger muskies don't even wipe out the squawfish, their preferred prey, and WDFW doesn't justify tiger muskie stocking in terms of rough fish control anymore]

I believe that you're right Don. After talking to a few of the residents that live on Lake Curlew, and quite a few other people that have fished it for many years, It is evident that the trout fishing is much better now than before Muskies were introduced to the lake. Now, in all fairness, some of this may be due to new ways of managing the trout fishery, but the point that I am getting at here, is that the introduction of muskies in the lake has not hampered the quality of the trout fishing at all.

[seament head]

KUDOS, to mtsiview and Don. The voices of reason prevail once again.
Too bad others need to resort to name calling, (I was called a 3rd grade gossiping schoolgirl) LMHO!!!
But I suspect that is the work of an attempted troll.
You know how to feed a troll right?
Starve it.

Logic, clarity in thinking, fearless. Good stuff, guys.
Both of your professionalism raises the bar on this forum.

[Morpheous]

KUDOS, to mtsiview and Don. The voices of reason prevail once again.
Too bad others need to resort to name calling, (I was called a 3rd grade gossiping schoolgirl) LMHO!!!
But I suspect that is the work of an attempted troll.
You know how to feed a troll right?
Starve it.

Logic, clarity in thinking, fearless. Good stuff, guys.
Both of your professionalism raises the bar on this forum.

Speaking of trolls...

This thread wasnt about stocking muskies. It was about a few bad apples having attitude problems. Lets keep this on track.

[Dex]

I have tried for several days not to post here, but I can't help myself.

I must say that I agree that the finger pointing has gone on long enough. I find it funny that people talk allot of garbage when there hidden behind a screen name yet never come forth as a real person to discuss their thoughts. It’s true that I have some trouble understanding the point of views of some people and I have talk to them about it. That doesn't mean there wrong and I'm right, it's just a different point of view. Sure I feel that some people enjoy stirring the pot on both sides of the fence and I hope they realize that they are starting to be ignored. Everyone always stated that their concern is for the fishery, yet focus on trivial BS. If everyone would put that energy for the good of fishery just think of all we could get done together.

My thoughts…

Dillon

[Rich McVey]

I have tried for several days not to post here, but I can't help myself.

I must say that I agree that the finger pointing has gone on long enough. I find it funny that people talk allot of garbage when there hidden behind a screen name yet never come forth as a real person to discuss their thoughts. It’s true that I have some trouble understanding the point of views of some people and I have talk to them about it. That doesn't mean there wrong and I'm right, it's just a different point of view. Sure I feel that some people enjoy stirring the pot on both sides of the fence and I hope they realize that they are starting to be ignored. Everyone always stated that their concern is for the fishery, yet focus on trivial BS. If everyone would put that energy for the good of fishery just think of all we could get done together.

My thoughts…

Dillon

Stiring the pot??? :chef: I hope its chili

I think everybody should show the love and meet at Cabelas tonight to see the baby Musky. Group Hugs.

[Dex]

I have tried for several days not to post here, but I can't help myself.

I must say that I agree that the finger pointing has gone on long enough. I find it funny that people talk allot of garbage when there hidden behind a screen name yet never come forth as a real person to discuss their thoughts. It’s true that I have some trouble understanding the point of views of some people and I have talk to them about it. That doesn't mean there wrong and I'm right, it's just a different point of view. Sure I feel that some people enjoy stirring the pot on both sides of the fence and I hope they realize that they are starting to be ignored. Everyone always stated that their concern is for the fishery, yet focus on trivial BS. If everyone would put that energy for the good of fishery just think of all we could get done together.

My thoughts…

Dillon

Stiring the pot??? :chef: I hope its chili

I think everybody should show the love and meet at Cabelas tonight to see the baby Musky. Group Hugs.

LOL Rich.....

With extra spices..............:colors:

[Don Wittenberger]

Human nature is the same everywhere, and there will always be sources of friction, so I think it's a matter of how well each of us individually develops our communications and interpersonal skills. Part of this involves learning to recognize what's important and what isn't, and having the self-discipline to overlook failings of others that don't matter. I like the baseball analogy: Forget about the crowd and keep your eye on the ball.

[Gone Fishin]

Well I think that the bickering that was originally referred to can be seen in the post about the muskie in the cabelas tank.
I understand that especially in an online forum people are going to disagree about things and argue some. That is good most of the time. You get to see more than one side of the situation. The arguement in that post was not necessary, relevant or even about that topic. It was more of one group not wanting another group to get credit for something that they were a major factor in.

I am not a member of either musky club but I have been around and know lots of the members of both clubs. I have enjoyed fishing with every one and look forward to fishing with both clubs in the future. The problem I have here is that 2 clubs with the exact same interests and passions, working against each other when they could get more done by working together. (I know working together is a lot to ask from 2 clubs like such, but at least stop trying to undermine each other) I'm not going to point a finger at either side and say that this club is causing the problem, but from what I have seen, one side is a little more bitter than the other. Like I stated before, I have friends on both sides, I fish with people on both sides and I would like to continue in these ways. When an outsider (non or beginning musky fisherman) reads posts like that it doesn't give them the best opinion of musky clubs. It makes them seem unfriendly and more of a head ache than anything.

I know it has been pointed out time and time again but sometimes the point gets missed. Both groups want the same things for this fishery. Is there a need to get jealous and start arguements when 1 group does something good? Instead of trying to take that away or gettting mad about it the other group should congratulate them for doing something that benefits both groups! And then come up with a project of your own to take credit for. This is not just the case of the cabelas tanks but it has happened on other issues as well.

I know Ch 57 sponsors this forum, that is great! But there is no reason that CMA members can't post on here. I know they are still allowed to but it seems as though some great muskie fisherman have been run out of here and given up on this site. That is less input on important topics and fewer people to lend tips to beginnners and get people pointed in the right direction. I think it is great that we have 2 muskie clubs in Washington now. That is twice the presence and twice the tourneys, which is a good thing. Its a good thing as long as the 2 sides see it that way.

I dont want it to get to the point where people feel like they have to pick a side on this. It would be like democrats and republicans.... we all know what a mess that can be! Lets not let muskie fishing in washington get to be that way. Go out and catch a muskie, it will brighten your day I promise! Then you can post the pic in the forum topic "This seasons photos"...... I know other people have photos they can post

[Rich McVey]

Gone Fishin: How old are you again? Great post! Wisdom beyond your years.

[Anglinarcher]

they can wand will devastate a lake if they are not limited.

Anglin, I hope you won't take this as bickering but I take issue with this statement. One of the things we try to do on this board is educate the general public about muskies, and dispel the popular misconceptions that turn some people against muskies. For example, in Minnesota, state biologists who want to expand muskie stocking are encountering resistance from lakefront homeowners who think the muskies would wipe the other fish in their lakes. This simply isn't true. Most of the midwest's top muskie lakes also have thriving populations of walleyes, bass, crappie, etc. Nature finds its own balance between predators and prey. Tiger muskies don't even wipe out the squawfish, their preferred prey, and WDFW doesn't justify tiger muskie stocking in terms of rough fish control anymore]

Trust me Don, I do not consider this bickering. In fact, this is the kind of difference of opinion and experience that we should be using on this and other sites.

I must respectfully disagree with your entire line of thought. Walleye, bass, crappie, perch, all of the fish that you are discussing in Minnesota, evolved with the pike and muskie, so they do have defense. Trout on the other hand, the bread and butter of the Pacific Northwest rather we like it or not, do not. I concur that the people in Minnesota are misinformed, and in fact, in there case, the more Muskie and Pike and Tigers the better, up to a reasonable point. That is called management.

On one hand, I, having fished for over 45 years, having lived and or fished in 7 or more states (had to think for a second so it may be more), and seen what can happen when non-native species are planted, have experiences that confront your proposition. I have seen Northern Pike virtually wipe out trout fisheries in Colorado. It happens, it is real, it cannot be contested. Spinny Mountain and Eleven Mile, both above Colorado Springs and Denver, are real lakes with real problems. The Northern Pike have been blamed on the massive reduction of Native Cutthroat in Coeur d' Alene in Idaho as well, but I personally believe there is more to this argument then I want to go into now.

On the other hand, a controlled stalk of Tigers, in Cerlew, in Hauser in Idaho, in Silver in Spokane County, and to a lesser extent in Newman, have demonstrated that they can indeed work. But note that we do not get trout reports about Silver in Spokane anymore - they have devastated the trout.

No predator will wipe out all species of prey, but they do have an impact. I am not questioning the desire to spread them, in fact I want to see more of the Tigers. Nevertheless, I am not a spring chicken anymore, and I am not uneducated, I do see both sides of the debate, and recognize that neither side is completely correct.

Now, I consider this an example of how to discuss without bickering.