Update: WDFW Clarification, fish "caught" with bait

[leahcim_dahc]

I have emailed the WDFW asking if it is unlawful to set a line on a downrigger for a juvenile or elderly person who is unable to do so. I also asked if it is unlawful to cast a line for the same type of person who is unable to do so.

I would almost bet it would depend upon why they are unable to do it for themselves. If they have some sort of disability preventing them from doing so, then I would think they might qualify for a Designated Harvester Card.

Reduced-fee licenses may be provided to
persons who submit an application with proper
documentation as:
• Resident veterans with a service-connected
disability of 30% or more.
• Resident veterans 65 years of age or older
with a service-connected disability
• Resident persons who permanently use a
wheelchair
• Resident who is blind or visually impaired
• Resident with a developmental disability
These and other permanent disabilities may be qualifiers for a
Designated Harvester Card, which allows another licensed person to
assist an angler with a disability in harvesting a daily limit of fish or
shellfish.

[Toni]

How about this; we had 3 poles out for the 3 people in the boat. If someone hooks a fish and gives the pole to someone else to bring the fish in whose fish will it be? The person who hooks it or the one who brings it into the boat or the one who nets it or the one who unhooks it? This was a joint effort for all of use. We ended up not having a complete limit any way.

[Bscman]

Does this mean the guides can't put out there customers poles because they can't do it with out getting tangled? I have never ran a downrigger so I imagine if I was on a guided trip where they are used the guide or deck hand would be operating it. This has been bothering me because I put out my kids poles when trolling and cast for them when bank fishing like a lot of fathers.

Again, I think Dennis Nicks of the WDFW was just emphasizing the point that a lot of fathers use their kids as an excuse to put multiple lines in the water.

Helping a kid (or anyone) bait a hook or set the line in the water isn't be a big deal...but they need to be actively participating not 50yds away playing football (or asleep on the boat). If they lose interest, pull it out of the water.
I wouldn't think twice about setting up a kids pole, or helping them cast a bobber, etc...just make sure they're the ones watching it and retrieving.

I would think that in terms of professional guides, there is a reasonable expectation of "help" to the customers and the WDFW knows this. You can't expect someone "new" to fishing, or "new" to the gear being used to be able to operate everything. Aiding in the retrieve of the fish shouldn't be a problem (again, specualation by me) as long as the customer is actively fishing, and lands the fish themself on their own pole.
If they lose interest, go inside the cabin, fall asleep, fall overboard (hehe) it should be a given that their line comes out of the water. Helping keep the fish on, and the tanlges out, shouldn't be a problem in my mind.

How about this]

In the hunting world that would be considered "team hunting" and is illegal in the state of Washington.
In terms of fishing...??? I'm not sure, I'd recommend you contact them for an official answer.

[Dave]

Here is the email I sent to the WDFW, followed by their response.


Sorry to bother you and thank you in advance for taking time to answer a couple questions.

1) Is unlawful to set a line on a downrigger for a juvenile or elderly person who is not capable of doing so?

Also,

2) Is it unlawful to cast a line into a lake or other body of water for a juvenile or elderly person who is unable to cast the line him or her self?

Thank you very much for your reply. I searched the mrsc.org site for laws pertaining to this but was unable to locate a WAC or RCW law that covered it. Thanks again.

Dave


Here is the WDFW reply:

Dave -

There are no regulations that would preclude you from assisting a juvenile, or elderly person just as long as you were "assisting" and not fishing two lines. WDFW makes every effort to allow opportunities for everyone, especially those with disabilities. Helping set a down rigger or casting a fishing line does not constitute a violation under WDFW law.

Thank you,
WDFW Enforcement Division

Enforcement HQ Phone: 360-902-2936
Dangerous Bear/Cougar & Poaching
Hotline: 1-877-933-9847

Fish Program: 360-902-2700
Wildlife Program: 360-902-2515
Hunter Education: 360-902-8111
Licensing: 360-902-2464

[fishaholictaz]

I always thought it was ok thanks Dave!:cheers:

[Dave]

You bet. Happy to help.

[raffensg64]

Being that 90% of my fishing is normally catch-and-release fly fishing, this is a topic that I would not normally be concerned with. But, just yesterday, I found myself in this situation.

A partner and I went to Downs Lake in Spokane County, looking to get into the jumbo perch that can be found in it. In Aug and Sept of last year we had a few occasions where we did just that, and in those 4-5 trips we did not catch a single trout, despite the WDFW's annual rainbow plant. Things were different yesterday, though. While fishing jigs tipped with crawler chunks along the pads, we only got 2 perch but got into a mess of 11-13" rainbows, fish that we'd never encountered there before. While these fish were fun and saved an otherwise slow day, we were not fishing for trout. In fact, we were quite disgusted with them! We can go nearly anywhere and catch trout. After we'd each caught/released a few apiece, I told my partner that I had every intention of continuing to fish, even if I ended up with five. We were there targeting perch and hoping for a few crappie also. In the end, we actually ended up with five each but could have had more because we both lost a couple.

Had the whole lake to ourselves, though, and were not overly concerned, but it was an interesting situation that left me wondering if we were on the verge of violating the law.

[Anglinarcher]

Being that 90% of my fishing is normally catch-and-release fly fishing, this is a topic that I would not normally be concerned with. But, just yesterday, I found myself in this situation.

A partner and I went to Downs Lake in Spokane County, looking to get into the jumbo perch that can be found in it. In Aug and Sept of last year we had a few occasions where we did just that, and in those 4-5 trips we did not catch a single trout, despite the WDFW's annual rainbow plant. Things were different yesterday, though. While fishing jigs tipped with crawler chunks along the pads, we only got 2 perch but got into a mess of 11-13" rainbows, fish that we'd never encountered there before. While these fish were fun and saved an otherwise slow day, we were not fishing for trout. In fact, we were quite disgusted with them! We can go nearly anywhere and catch trout. After we'd each caught/released a few apiece, I told my partner that I had every intention of continuing to fish, even if I ended up with five. We were there targeting perch and hoping for a few crappie also. In the end, we actually ended up with five each but could have had more because we both lost a couple.

Had the whole lake to ourselves, though, and were not overly concerned, but it was an interesting situation that left me wondering if we were on the verge of violating the law.

No, you were not, but........................ I sure would not have kept a single trout, not even one. If you did, then it would have been pretty tough to prove you were not targeting trout.

There is after all the law, and the interpretations of the officer enforcing the law. Often they do not agree. Ask me sometime about cotton balls and barbless hooks, but not until you and I are both in a really good mood.

[MikeFishes]

Fair warning was given that children must be actively participating, and within "immediate control" of their gear in order to be legal...if a kid can't operate a downrigger, don't be setting their gear up with one.

Does this mean the guides can't put out there customers poles because they can't do it with out getting tangled? I have never ran a downrigger so I imagine if I was on a guided trip where they are used the guide or deck hand would be operating it. This has been bothering me because I put out my kids poles when trolling and cast for them when bank fishing like a lot of fathers.

I think that the point of the "immediat control" rule is that you don't use the kid as a rod holder. The kid just has to reel in the fish. From my understanding, if you've set up the downrigger correctly, the kid doesn't need to know how to operate it.

[Anglinarcher]

When I set up a downrigger, I and only I will touch the thing. I use a stacker for a second person, and he does nothing but let out line, real in line, and fight fish.

I have been seen by several Fish Cops, and not one of them has even bothered to comment or boat on by.

I think that it is pretty clear that the intent of the law does not preclude the boat captain from setting up planner boards or downriggers. After all, some things are simply a one person operation, want it done right, do it your self type of thing.

[BassinBomber]

"Crystal Clear" bscman!!!!!!

[sickbayer]

Fair warning was given that children must be actively participating, and within "immediate control" of their gear in order to be legal...if a kid can't operate a downrigger, don't be setting their gear up with one.

Does this mean the guides can't put out there customers poles because they can't do it with out getting tangled? I have never ran a downrigger so I imagine if I was on a guided trip where they are used the guide or deck hand would be operating it. This has been bothering me because I put out my kids poles when trolling and cast for them when bank fishing like a lot of fathers.

I do have electric downriggers and four foot booms, you really think im gonna let me kids (8,10) set up their poles on um, NOT. kids cantstay focused for hours on end (some can) mine get bored so they bring their MP3s etc. well it is just me two cents..