What fish finder and electric motor

[gottidave]

Hi guys

New to the forum, and fairly new to fishing.

I own a smokecraft 15' with a 25hp outboard yamaha prop.

So far been fishing mostly on rivers, but with the prop I have to get to the lakes and Puget sound.

Looking to buy a good fish finder and electrical motor but can't figure out the best way to do it.

Fish finder

Looks like a lot of people like lowrance? Is that the better one?

Is it worth getting the new hds 7 gen3 like (lots of $$) but is it really worth or necessary?

Will I really need the structure scan part?

If I buy lowrance what transducer should I be buying?

is it worth spending $1500 on the hds gen 3 ones or $300 - 400 setup do just fine?

Electrical motor

Should I get the one that mounts in front (problem is that my anchor setup is there too so should I move it slightly to the side?) or the one that mounts on the back?

Will a electrical motor replace a gas kicker like 6hp or so?

is minn kota the better one? will it do well on puget sound?

I heard that it won't do the autopilod with lowrance. is that a important feature?

will the minn kota i pilot worth the $?

another motor that would do well with lowrance fish finder?

thinking 55 pounds for the electric motor?

thanks in advance and apologies if too many questions in one place

[Larry3215]

Im a long way from an expert, but Im not going to let that stop me from giving you my opinion

First of all, I don't think you will find an electric trolling motor much use on the sound. You're going to run through battery juice very very fast if you are trolling for salmon. I personally think you will be much better off using your main motor or getting a small gas kicker.

Plus, you will need a special saltwater version to use any electric motor in the sound. The saltwater trolling motors are a big jump in price from the fresh water versions. DONT try using a regular freshwater trolling motor in salt water. It will die very quickly.

Also - plan on having a separate battery for the electric trolling motor. You do not want to run it from your cranking motor.

You can mount the electric motor in the front and have it offset with no problem.

As far as front or back, that depends on how you fish. I prefer it in the front for the way I fish.

A 55 pound version will be plenty for your size boat.

You should read up on I-Pilot and the various options to decide on what you might want or need for your style of fishing. More features are nice but it depends on your budget.

MinnKota/I-Pilot works with Humminbird sonar/gps units - they are the same company - but not all of them. You need to read up on which ones go with which level of features. However, the basic I-pilot remote works with all on its own. You can use it without needing a Humminbird sonar/GPS unit. You only need the separate GPS/Chart plotter for advanced waypoint navigation.

We just up-graded from an older MinnKota manual steer unit to a new unit with the I-Pilot remote - not connected to our Humminbird sonar. Its a very very nice up-grade. We use the GPS hold function and cruise control features all the time now that we have them available. It frees you up to concentrate on fishing rather than driving the boat.

I have a Humminbird 598 side imaging sonar/GPS on my 21' Smoker Craft and like it a lot. The only down side is the small screen. I recommend you get the largest screen size you can afford that also has all the other features you want. As far as side scan/structure scan - I think its a fantastic tool for a serious fisherman. I wasn't sure it would be worth the cost until we tried it out, but again, budgets vary. I'd also highly recommend you get a unit with GPS charting built in. That's a very very useful feature to have for safety as well as fishing.

Hope that helps some

[hewesfisher]

We had a good sonar discussion in the Products & Gear section - http://www.washingtonlakes.com/forum/vi ... 25&t=21367" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You don't have to spend $1500 to get great features.

Your gear choice should be tailored to your primary fishing preference, fresh or saltwater, species you're after, etc.

I'll echo Larry's comment about the MinnKota and also add that using a freshwater MinnKota in salt water will void the warranty. A member on my forum inquired direct to MinnKota about using the new auto deploy and stow Ulterra in salt water. MinnKota's reply:

If you use a freshwater motor in salt-water you will void your warranty.

If you want to use one in the salt, best start with a salt water motor in the first place.

[gottidave]

Thanks guys for all input so far.

I would like to hear some more opinions as well.

As far as electric motor, was considering to buy the saltwater to have the flexibility to use in the puget sound.

Anyone has a open seat for fishing in the next future to discuss more on the subject? (pm please)

Have a hard time figuring out all my fishing options.

Thanks in advance again!

[hlindsay]

I had a 1990 15ft Smokercraft Alaskan with 25hp Mercury, I put a 36lb Minn kota bow mount powerdrive on it. It had a wired foot control I could run from the back. The electric was for lakes and did fine so if you get a 55lb it would do great. I would not run the elect in the salt. Even salt water sealed, I think the tides are too much for an elect.
The 25hp was all I used to troll for Salmon around Tacoma and at Sekiu. I used a clamp mount down rigger and did well with it. In 06 I moved up to 17ft and I put a Terrova w/ I-pilot and remote. I love it. I do not have the new "link" so for me the fish finder did not matter for that. I had a Eagle. I just got a close out Lowrance Elite 7 combo and hope it was a good choice for $450.
If I had the $ I would go with a Minn Kota with Link and a hummingbird Onix to use with it.

[kodacachers]

I bought a Lowrance Elite 7 HDI last year and am very happy with it and am very glad I went with the 7 and not a 5. I went with the 50/200 transducer because i fish a lot in the sound in deeper water, though I'm not sure its that helpful. My only issue is it loses depth at speed. I imagine that is a transducer placement issue (i.e. user error) and not the unit.

I think I paid about $700 for it last year and see the same setup is $550 this year.

I'm sure the HDS3 is a superior unit, but for three times the price, you have to judge the advantage for yourself. My runner up last year was the HDS 7 touch screen, but I just couldn't justify the added cost given how little I'm on the water.

[hlindsay]

What I got is the elite 7 HDI w 83/200, it came with the sun cover and 1 yr Insight Genesis mapping. It was $399 black friday and I missed that and it went up to 450.
I have a lot of hope the mapping will be good for areas like Potholes. Have you used the mapping much or at all?

[gottidave]

how do you decide what is the best transducer frequency?

assuming that I would want to do some puget sound and lakes around here?

Lowrance has this: Elite-7 CHIRP Gold Fishfinder/Chartplotter with 83/200 + 455/800kHz Transducer

is navionics the ideal mapping system?

thanks

[Larry3215]

Lower frequencies reach deeper depths and provide a wider view of the bottom (wider cone angle), but with relatively lower detail. Higher frequencies give more detail but with a narrower cone angle and cant penetrate as deep.

Side scan or structure scan for example wont work unless you have at least 400khz. Better units have up to 800 khz.

So, if you plan to fish the Sound and in lakes, you need as wide a freq range as possible.

[Larry3215]

Just to expand on that, your sonar unit may say its good to 1000 ft for example, but thats likely only at 83khz. You wont be able to see individual fish on the bottom and not much detail. Balls of bait fish will just be blobs. Your sidescan/structure scan on the other hand will likely say its only good to 200 ft max, but you can tell if your passing over a dead tree at 80 ft depth and 30 ft off to the left side of the boat and see the individual branches on the tree. You can also see rocks, some plants, channels, sunken boats etc. In other words - places fish like to hide. You will likely have a hard time seeing individual fish unless they are fairly large and have a large screen.

Seeing the fish we like to catch - those nice fish arches - is best done by the intermediate freq at 200 khz.

So you really need all freqs to cover all situations.

[Larry3215]

I keep getting distracted and forgetting things - cone angle.

Sonar units have what is called cone angle. The sonar signal acts like a flashlight shining on the bottom. At the flashlight itself, the beam is only 2" wide, but 50 feet away it might light up an area 50' wide or only 10 feet wide or maybe 100 feet wide depending on the cone angle.

83 khz units tend to be around 45 degree cone angles. That means if the water is 50 feet deep, you are "seeing" a circle on the bottom 50 ft in diameter. At 200 khz you might only be seeing a circle 20 ft in diameter in 50 ft of water. With that same 200 khz unit, your only seeing a circle 10 ft in diameter at 25 ft depth and so on. A fish might be 15 ft down and 10 feet off to the side and you will never see it if your running a hi freq.

Different brands handle structure scan differently, but for most, side scan is a vary narrow beam that takes thin slices as images of the bottom so you end up seeing much more fine detail over a wide area.

[gottidave]

After some research and some feedback from you guys and westmarine, I'm thinking to buy the Lowrance Elite 7 Chirp Gold with Navionics for the sound build in

http://www.amazon.com/Lowrance-Elite-7- ... B00JCF7X72" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone that uses this one? Love it hate it.

Also how could I add to it the navionics for lakes?

Thanks everyone again, and very impressed to see how active this community is and helpful.

[Larry3215]

Im not a Lowrance guy and didnt read the manual on that model, but since it comes with navionics charting already, you may not need to add the Lakes data.

You need to go to the Navionics site and read up on the chart option that comes with this sounder. They may even have screen shots of the lakes you are interested in.

To be safe, a call or e-mail to Navionics help desk would be a good idea.

You can also check compatability of the lakes data with your model. Not all maps work on all sounders.

As far as how to get the data on the sounder, you will need to read the manual to be sure. If its not pre-loaded, then you may have to download the data on to an SD card and then insert that into the sounder. There may also be other ways.

[gottidave]

Another question

Will the electric motor (minn kota 55lb) do well trolling on the lakes around here my 15' smokecraft? At 20 - 50' depth?

So I need to have 2 bateries? One for the motor and one for fish finder?

Thank you

[Larry3215]

It should be fine as long as you have a large enough battery. How long a battery lasts is highly variable depending on wind conditions and how much gear you have in the water and throttle setting.

Your fish finder wont draw much power compared to the trolling motor. Both could go on the same battery - maybe. Sometimes you get electrical interference from the trolling motor causing problems on the sounder view screen. You will just have to try it and see. If there is interference, you will have to run the sounder from the cranking battery.

What ever battery you are using to start your gas motor should be separate from the trolling motor battery. A 55# MinnKota can draw upwards of 60 amps at hi speed. That will run your battery down very fast. You dont want to be stuck on the far side of the lake unable to start your main motor.

[hlindsay]

I use a 55lb for my 17ft Smokercraft Fazer and it weighs a lot more than my 15ft Smokercraft did, and 55 works fine.
When I had a 15 ft Alaskan I used two batteries. One in the bow for the trolling motor and one at the stern for fish finder and lights. I think one battery would work if you want to run the wire in the boat. My boat now runs the bow fish finder and trolling motor off one and the only problem is when I run low on power the FF shuts down.
If your 25hp gas is electric start use two batteries, one cranking one big as you can get deep cycle.
I don't understand your question about depth. The depth of water would not matter to the trolling motor. What is a concern is wind and flowing water. So if you go on big lakes where the wind comes up, or in areas with water flowing that is a concern.
When I fish Potholes and the wind comes up I go to the gas motor.

[geljockey]

I would recommend two batteries. One for trolling motor and one for fish finder. I have a Lowrance HDS 5 fishfinder/gps and after 3 hours of trolling, the trolling motor sucks up too much power for the Lowrance to work. I am looking at getting a 12V tractor or motorcycle battery for the Lowrance.

I also recommend you getting a "battery" tender to keep your battery or batteries optimized.

[gottidave]

So I have decided on this

LOWRANCE Elite-7 CHIRP Gold Fishfinder/Chartplotter with 83/200 + 455/800kHz Transducer $699 after rebate

Xi5 55lb 48" with Pedal - $799.99

Motorguide Pinpoit Gateway $249.99 (to connect electric motor to Lowrance unit and use the "autopilot")

NMEA 2000 kit

This way I can control the motor way points and all that stuff from lowrance unit.

Anyone has any idea if there is any difference on the autopilot features between HDS gen3 and this Elite unit?

Online this is what I find: "The MotorGuide® Gateway Kit will connect a Pinpoint® GPS-equipped MotorGuide Xi5 trolling motor to a compatible Lowrance® fishfinder/chartplotter through an existing NMEA 2000 network."

Elite unit is chartplotter and also NMEA compatible.

If anyone can advice on this highly appreciated.

Thank you

[gottidave]

Anyone that has this unit

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/lowrance- ... --15631583" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wondering if it has the autopilot futures of the HDS gen 3.

Thank you

[gottidave]

end up purchase a hds 7 gen 3 and a motor guide 55lb electric motor

also setup for autopilot with motorguide pinpoint gps and gateway kit

cool stuff if anyone is interested