It only took 40 years

[Lucius]

I found this article from 1964 talking about pike in Montana migrating over to the Pend Orielle River

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 19,5621580" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It only took 40 years for them to become established...

[jd39]

Deleted my previous post, a little ranty. Suffice to say i hope they don't get any further.

[AJ's Dad]

It may have taken 40 years for them to get here but it only took Conner and his gang one spring and summer to wipe them out.

[Mark K]

Conner will have to spend the rest of his life netting Pike and it wont change a thing. They aren't going anywhere. There may be smaller numbers, in turn making them harder to catch, but they will still be there. They will also move down stream (already have) and BPA/WDFW will probably spend money down stream to control the population. Your cash cow won't last forever Jason, so enjoy it while you can. Like they say, "You may have won the battle, but you won't win the war". Now go round up the gang Jason, it's March. Time to go "fishing".

[jd39]

Conner will have to spend the rest of his life netting Pike and it wont change a thing. They aren't going anywhere. There may be smaller numbers, in turn making them harder to catch, but they will still be there. They will also move down stream (already have) and BPA/WDFW will probably spend money down stream to control the population. Your cash cow won't last forever Jason, so enjoy it while you can. Like they say, "You may have won the battle, but you won't win the war". Now go round up the gang Jason, it's March. Time to go "fishing".

I'm a little confused, was some of this reply directed at me? My name is Jason, or is that just a coincidence?

I personally don't have anything against pike, I've fished for them back east and think they're a cool fish, just don't want them harming salmon and steelhead runs in the Colombia River system. I don't even fish the Colombia river system often but know salmon and steelhead are very important to it ecologicially and drives economic activity in the state generally.
I am however developing a stong dislike, borderline hate for bucket biologists. Fish are fish and will do what they do, people, bucket biologist specifically, are proving to be dumber then the fish they stupidly plant.

Guess I can't discuss this topic (bucket biologists) without ranting.

[AJ's Dad]

jd39,
The Jason that Mark K. is referring to is Jason Conner the fisheries guy with the Kalispel Tribe and the leader of the charge against the pike in the PendOrielle river. Like many of us Mark K. is very passionate about the pike fishing and now the lack there of in the PendOrielle river. His comments were in now way intended for you.
I hope he doesn't mind me speaking for him.

Happy fishing

[Mark K]

Conner will have to spend the rest of his life netting Pike and it wont change a thing. They aren't going anywhere. There may be smaller numbers, in turn making them harder to catch, but they will still be there. They will also move down stream (already have) and BPA/WDFW will probably spend money down stream to control the population. Your cash cow won't last forever Jason, so enjoy it while you can. Like they say, "You may have won the battle, but you won't win the war". Now go round up the gang Jason, it's March. Time to go "fishing".

I'm a little confused, was some of this reply directed at me? My name is Jason, or is that just a coincidence?

I personally don't have anything against pike, I've fished for them back east and think they're a cool fish, just don't want them harming salmon and steelhead runs in the Colombia River system. I don't even fish the Colombia river system often but know salmon and steelhead are very important to it ecologicially and drives economic activity in the state generally.
I am however developing a stong dislike, borderline hate for bucket biologists. Fish are fish and will do what they do, people, bucket biologist specifically, are proving to be dumber then the fish they stupidly plant.

Guess I can't discuss this topic (bucket biologists) without ranting.

Lol Sorry, it's not directed at you Jason. Just a coincidence. It was directed Jason Conner and the Kalispel tribe in general. Just frustrating when people take stuff away with only their own personal gain in mind. I do understand the problems WDFW sees eventually downstream in the Columbia. The problem is the Kalispels one minute want to help "manage" the Pike fishery with slot limits and try and promote this unique fishery in their community. The next minute they get into BPA's wallet and Jason Conner becomes a "national Pike expert" and is killing everything that swims with his nets.

The Kalispels have NOTHING to gain by keeping these Pike out of the Columbia besides BPA money, as the only land they have is on Box Canyon Reservoir. BPA's money should be focused on Pike removal downstream in Boundary Reservoir and beyond to the Columbia. Pike are already in those waters, and with no removal and one good year class they will be very established. Conner just wants his piece of the pie before the Pike get a better foothold downstream, and he cant convince the BPA that his removal is essential. Really, all he is doing is taking funds from where they should be focused.

Now I'm the one ranting. Anyways jd39, I'm glad you enjoy Pike fishing because they will be down your way soon enough while Conner and BPA ignore the fish downstream. And thanks for clearing up that confusion for me AJ's Dad. I dont mind at all. Maybe we can all 3 meet up and go Pike fishing down around The Dalles here in a few years! Lol

[Natebg1]

Hello Fellow Pike Anglers,
I too will vouch for Mark K with him speaking about Jason Conner in regards to the Pike matter. I guess I am a little confused how He is considered a "Pike Expert", has anyone seen his resume and know what his favorite fish is? Usually this tells you everything you need to know about the level of an angler in regards to the knowledge they have on a particular fish species. I don't care what there job is, this doesn't make them an "Expert". I can tell you by no means am I an expert in Pike fishing, however it is one of my favorite fish to chase and I have been doing it for over 20 years, from Wisconsin all the way West to Washington and North to Canada. I am very confident in saying that I know how to Pike fish extremely well, and believe that I know the ins and the outs of the Pike species, however even all my experience by no means makes me an expert. I am guessing that the majority of the Pike anglers on this forum are probably in the same boat and probably like Pike much more than those trying to eradicate them from the Pend Oreille River!

I understand money is the main focus behind the decisions being made on this phenomenal River, it is just unfortunate that it has come to Gill Netting to try and fix the problem. As we all know this is affecting the entire fishery and everything within the River. Obviously we could go back and forth and bash Jason Conner and his gang, but at this point the end result is that the Pike are in the River to stay and there is no way that they will get them all. It may take a decade to be back to what it was as a Pike Fishery unless the WDFW can somehow continue to afford Gill Netting year after year, which I highly doubt. With the crisis of the budget nation wide, there is no way that this will continue to be something that can be afforded or will be a priority. I just say give it time and go spend your money in Idaho for Pike until the only hope the WDFW has left is to the Fisherman to eradicate these Amazing Fish! Oh did I mention that this will never happen! It would take over a Million Fisherman a day on the Pend Oreille River every year for at least the next decade to even make a dent and even then that still probably wouldn't completely do in the Pike! That is all I need to say to give everyone an idea of just how many Pike will continue to grow in the Pend Oreille. The Gill Nets have certainly taken a toll, but this is not the end of the Pike on the Pend Oreille! Just a temporary hold on Fishing till nature can take over again, which always happens, especially on a River! Good Fishing everyone, Spring is just around the corner!

Nate The Pike Baron

[jd39]

Thanks all, makes sense. I take a different stance on the issue but hey if they'll going to be there might as well fish for them. Have to agree totally eradicating them is unlikely. Warmwater species don't appear to be nearly as deadly to the salmon/steelhead runs as the dams, huge colonies of bird preying on smolts and nets on the way back. Maybe the pike's impact will be similar, hopefully. Remove the other factors and it probably wouldn't be noticable.

[AJ's Dad]

Nate,
The BPA has been around for a long time and they will remain for even longer. They have been shelling out millions and millions and millions (ok that's enough millions) of dollars to help improve the salmon runs due to the problems caused by the dams. The tribe has been granted I believe $10 million over a ten year time frame. Believe me, at the end of that ten years, and most likely prior to that, they will point out that their efforts to control the pike population have been successful and that if they do not continue to receive those dollars on a continuing basis, they will claim that the pike situation will take over the Columbia and wipe out the salmon. Then once again we will see those big dollars thrown their way. The pike will continue to come over the dam at Albeni Falls and unto the POR but as long as that money keeps rolling in, and I think it will, the pike fishing on the POR will never be what it was prior to the gill netting genocide. That's just my opinion.

Happy Fishing

[Lucius]

Ok here goes my crazed rant from pike heaven....

First off I don't blaim Mr. Connor for what is taking place on the POR river. I think he is the unfortunate face for what is happening and he is merely doing what he is told to do by the "movers and shakers". By no means do I agree with what is going on with the pike on the POR not even in the slightest.

I think they can save a butt load of money and be way more successful at preventing pike from migrating down river/stream (their ultimate goal) by haveing 1 or 2 nets span across the river at the bottleneck point of the transition down river a.k.a the dams. In turn if they ever decided to construct the fish ladders, some thought would need to be used to direct the fish ladders away from the dam exit point as well as elevating the fish ladder exit so as not to allow the pike to swim down the fish ladder. If they ever try to reintroduce the native fish species back into the ecosystem, I would imagine they would use the current method they are using now to help migrate the fry/smolt down stream via barge because apparently the fry/smolt have a very difficult time trying to migrate through the dams.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=99349&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also think there is a possible serious problem on the horizon and the netting efforts will be all for not. Currently they are using nets that allow for smaller/other fish species to pass through them while they catch the medium to large pike. In a study done by the Minnesota DNR, removing the medium to large pike from an ecosystem is a major factor to an increase in smaller pike populations (page 16 of 88 under Northern Pike Overview):

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/fish_wildl ... e_2020.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can see in 2-5 years an explosion in the pike population only that the pike will be under 20". It will take time for the current pike population to respond to what is going on hence the time frame. So instead of 40-50 medium pike days we will have 80-100 pike days of pike under 20"...the true monsters/problem pike with their vorocious metabolisms because of their young age.

Now lets say the pike make it down to the Columbia river and become established, will the pike deciamte the salmon and steelhead fishery....I don't think so.

Like I meantioned before the salmon/steelhead fry/smolt are barged down the Columbia because they have problem migrating the dams. Since the fry/smolt would tend the occupy the same water as the northern pike, that is where the serious problem would lie, but since they are being barged the fry/smolt would rarely cross paths with the pike. The adult salmon and steelhead tend to occupy different waters than the pike and even if they did cross paths the adult salmon and steelhead are too big for pike to eat, so predation on larger salmon and steelhead would be minimal.

As it turns out the majority of the salmon and steelhead caught are hatchery fish so this just adds to what was stated above.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hatcheries/overview.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for the wild salmon/steelhead there is a predator that is currently causing problems for them known as the northern pikeminnow which the WDFW is paying a bounty on every northern pikeminnow caught and killed over 9". Well as it turns out the northern pikeminnow and the northern pike occupy the same waters and I think the northern pike would do a fantastic job of keeping the northern pikeminnow in check thus increasing the salmon/steelhead populations.

http://fieldguide.mt.gov/detail_AFCJB35030.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pike tend to cause problems for salmon and steelhead population when there is nothing else to eat in the ecosystem, which Alaska is going through this exact problem. Alaska also points out that the native range of pike in Alaska happens to be in bodies of water where there are a lot more differnet species of fish, some of which can compete with the northern pike somewhat.

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?ad ... epike.main" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Columbia happens to bode a very diverse ecosystem to include many differnet species of fish of which some can compete with the pike, like the walleye and smallmouth bass.

http://ecology.pnnl.gov/Fishes_Columbia_River.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now I am not saying pike would never eat a salmon or steelhead. Salmon and steelhead eat other smaller salmon and stealhead. I just don't think it would a problem in the very diverse ecosystem of the Columbia River...

They call me Lucius...Esox Lucius

[Natebg1]

Well your Honor Esox Lucius,

The defense Rests and the Pike Community WINS!!! I guess at least in one way it is a Win because we get the opportunity to educate, teach, and prove how the Pike population can both help and hurt a fishery depending on the ecosystem and environment of the body of water in which they live.

From Minnesota's DNR, this report shows how they are managing the Northern Pike population and the steps being taken to make things better for many different fisheries within the State.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fish/norther ... ement.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another great piece of education for those interested in controlling Northern Pike populations while still being able to have a great fishery is the night crawler thief AKA the Perch! That is correct, I said the PERCH, for those who think these fish are a useless and destructive species, they absolutely are a major threat to Pike because they love eating Pike Eggs. In the same respect Largemouth Bass are a huge predator to the Northern Pike community as well, because old Billy the Bass loves Pike Fingerlings as a snack. So between the Perch and the Bass community, the Northern Pike population will suffer greatly if both of these species are able to grow and thrive in the same body of water. Plus the other side to this is that Bass and Northern Pike both love to eat Perch so it is sort of a "Circle of Life" type of environment. The Perch eat the Pike Eggs, the Bass eat the Perch and Northern Pike fingerlings and the Northern Pike eat the smaller Bass depending on if the spawning period happens to be around the same point in time. However with population control of the Perch and Bass the Pike are able to hold on in much better numbers and grow to larger sizes. Below is a great report that goes over this and shows the significants of the balance in population of each species. Sort of a lengthy read, but very informative. Amazing when you let mother nature do its work it will take care of itself. I guess the old saying of "if it aint broke don't fix it" would be perfect in this situation.

http://www.fws.gov/greatplainsfishandwi ... 003JFE.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lastly, let's not forget that Washington State and the Power companies are also partly to blame for this Pike boom! If it wasn't for these dams many of the bodies of waters within the Columbia River system wouldn't be "warmwater fisheries" which help to allow the growth and development of many not native species other than just the Northern Pike! i.e. the Smallmouth Bass, the Crappie, Sunfish and Bluegill, Perch and also the Great Walleye! I am sure I am probably missing many other species that are non-native, but I am sure the point is proven. Well hopefully everyone finds this information interesting and is now a little more informed on the GREAT NORTHERN PIKE!

By the Way, Thanks Esox Lucius for getting the Pike nerves flowing again, time to get out and do some Northern Pike fishing in Idaho! Tight Lines and keep in touch and let me know when we are heading back to Canada!

Nate the Pike Baron!

[boyermtn]

Without getting into how other states have managed pike, because this is washington; a little background perspective.
In the early/mid 1980's I worked for the WA DNR assigned to the Newport Unit(local), after having graduated with a major in forestry/minor in fisheries. At that time, on ocassion, we worked fairly close with the Kalisples. During those days, and I would imagine today, it was their will too build a strong trout fishery on the PO. During those days, bass came under the gun of being the major threat to the trout fishery. Pike were there then too, but to a lesser extent but still being caught by those fishers who targeted them. The major problem, at that time, was that the tribe wanted a trout fishery and it wasnt working out to good, mainly enviromental conditions, and to a lesser degree predation by several spicies. I am guessing that they are still up to the same flawed science, that I want spicies X to be the major fishery, and by damn, its going to work, even if I have to remove all natural preditors in the ecosystem to obtain this goal. Fact is if the river was void of all preditors, the trout fishery may not succeed. Futher north, especially on the canadian side, yes; in fact they have a very good trout fishery up there where the PO meets the columbia.

Just my two-cents.

[AJ's Dad]

boyermtn,
Thanks for the educated input.
However, in this case, it looks clear that it's not their fishery they are protecting. It's their pocket book. Unfortunately the BPA is willing to hand out dollars by the millions, and the Kalispels found themselves anavenue to get into the that wallet. Claim that the salmon or trout will suffer and the BPA hands you check. Then they can say they are trying to make amends for the damage to the salmon runs, done by the dams.
The Kalispels seem to have changed direction. You say they wanted to create a strong trout fishery back then. Eventually they decided they needed a bass hatchery and started planting that predetory fish in the river. If it's a fishery they were after, they could just sit back and help manage a great pike fishery and stop trying, and succeeding to convince the rest of the world that the pike were going to wipe out the entire salmon fishery in the columbia river system
It's no longer a fishery they are after, it $$$$$$$$$$ and they got it.