Proposed Lead Ban by WDFW

[SAPIplate]

I can understand why there considering a lead ban. The killing of the birds and whatnot. I've always been fond of lead as far as fishing goes. Tungsten is heavy,very malliable and expensive. Tin weights are just.....pathetic. Steel is a bit meh. Nothin does the job like lead. I suppose me and Lead are kind of friends, in a way. Or, maybe just old fashioned.

[davisjames]

Two of the members in the forum were afraid of Tetanus. They think the disease would be caused through the bacteria stuck in the metals present on the ground. For your info, tetanus bacteria will be present only in the anaerobic environment (ie only in rusty metals).

If you think that you might be affected by the disease, check for tetanus symptoms or lockjaw symptoms

[Anglinarcher]

well i think it is a stupid debate...lead is bad no matter what form it is, now if there is a simple fix like banning it do it...and use the stuff that isnt quite the same weight. i fail to see how lead catches me more fish.....although i do wonder about those 2 10lb downrigger balls i lost....

Is lead really so bad? Did you know that 3/4 of all water lines in the Eastern US are still lead? Did you know that many of the older water mains in Seattle and Portland are still lead?

Did you take chemistry in school? If you did, you may remember that when you did a qualitative analysis that lead is the very first element to come out of solution. It is only in solution in an acid environment. That is why it can kill if eaten; in the acid of the stomach it can dissolve.

You could coat the bottom of your favorite river with lead and it would not hurt a thing, unless your river is a pretty strong acid. So, how bad is lead?

I want to see the study, and to find out how qualified the so called scientists are that are making the determination that it was lead that killed the birds. I want to know the other details so often mentioned in the above post, i.e., total quantity of birds killed, the source of the lead, etc.

I understand that you consider this a stupid debate, but is it the debate or the fact you don't like the fact that lead is really not all that bad?#-o

[Anglinarcher]

10? 20? 40?

If the data clearly shows a correlation to avian mortality, why does a number have to be larger for you to take action?

E

If one comet or asteroid hits the earth every 100 million years, killing off almost all life on earth, does the correlation to mortality, avian or not, matter? Should we be expending all of our global resources to protect us from the next comet or asteroid?

If a massive solar flare hits the earth once very 50 million years, killing off most species of life on earth, does the correlation to mortality, avian or not, matter? Should we be expending all of our global resources to protect us from the next massive solar flare or mass coronal ejection aimed at earth?

The fact is that both of the above items are true, but we seem to be able to determine that expending the majority of our resources for something that rarely happens is ridiculous. I think the question is "at what point does a few dead Loons constitute cause for a ridiculous expenditure of money?"

So, Gisteppo, what is your number, or percentage? Are you in favor of spending ourselves into oblivion over the comet, asteroid, or solar flare as well?

Just wondering.

[Anglinarcher]

It seems to me that everyone is stretching from A-Z here when A and B have only been proposed.

Let's take a step back here...

The slippery slope theory is great and all, ....................
...............Please, keep in mind that it isn't some insidious conspiracy on the part of the <insert hated political division: left, right, martians, etc> to destroy your enjoyment of fishing, it is just a result of a problem identified scientifically.

E

I am not sure that I totally agree. Join a PETA site, or any other ultra left wing tree hugger web site, and they will give you their "slippery slope" agenda to end hunting, fishing, camping, and anything else that they just don't think we low life humans should be doing.

I would rather find out that I am paranoid then to find out you are naive, but I fear the opposite is true.

[Anonymous]

[quote] ...naive...[quote]As are most that are within the government concerning this subject. They are just doing a 'feel good' act.

[YellowBear]

We have been told that the birds have injested the lead sinkers and this killed the birds.
In my lifetime I have cleaned thousands of birds.
In many cases I have cleaned the gizzards of the birds from Doves and Quail to Turkey and Geese.
I have never found anything bigger than say #9 shot in any of them.

The EPA has a big push to outlaw all lead in fishing tackle nation wide.
This is NOT just jigs and sinkers, this is all lead!

[Matt]

If lead is the true issue, then be upfront about it and push that agenda. "We want to ban lead because lead is toxic." not "We want to ban lead because it may have had an impact on a small number of birds that migrate to the state" If the studies and the data show that this action should be taken i would support it. But I do not think that this report has that many well documented cases to justify action at this time.

I could not agree with this sentiment from page 1 more.

I didn't read all 5 pages of this topic, but I think this would pose terrible problems for us fisherpeople, especially us in the rivers and sound. Most anchors and certainly all downrigger balls are made out of lead and I can't think of a viable substitute that would not be astronomically expensive. I can't afford a 1,000$ anchor. My river anchor is 45lbs. Likewise, how often to you go through downrigger balls, you lose them, it happens.... how about buying a nice one made out of a much more expensive material that is twice the size and or twice the price.

Banning lead would be a very serious move indeed.

[BMGW]

Well guys and gals, as some of you know I am a manufacturer of a line of tackle, I use a lead alloy formula. My orders for materials have all been placed on hold, like many other businesses across America in a time of dire need for jobs, this administration is doing everything it can to destroy jobs. I have informed all my employees on of the pending decision and the impact it will have on their lives. I read the post at EPA by the group that is using ONE stinking Loon as the proof positive to push thier agenda. Reminds me of the attempt to tie up the Wenatchee Nat'l Forest by the whacko enviros a decade or so ago when they were planting scat of the Lynx and thus trying to find the next endangered species to run amok with, fortunate for us they got caught trying to pull the wool over our eyes. To ban the use of small enough pieces of lead is one thing, but the real attempt here is to ban all lead just to put the hurt on our pocketbooks in an attempt to get us off the water one way or another. Gee I guess God screwed up when he made lead a natural part of our environment! I have to say I am very disappointed that the powers that be here at this website did not put this issue before the membership in time to get meaningful dialog and then give you the opportunity to make an informed decision to post your comments with the EPA. Now it's too late as the comment period was ended sooner than they had initially informed the public, it closed on the 15th of this month. As for me I see this as a real bogus issue, but one thing we can learn from this is the modus of operandi by the leftist of the world, see the carbon tax gig is much the same. It's still not too late to voice your opinion on that, if that passes none of us will have enough money to worry about engaging in any leisure activity...

[Anonymous]

BMGW I too am a Small Bus. Enterprise. We also get nailed by state and the feds. Our state of Wa. is not business friendly at all. This state is one of the biggest promoters of the use of foerign products.L and I in our state has crippled our business over machines they deem unsafe even though we havent had an injury in over 20 years other then a bandaid.We too are faced with the EPA on the use of lead. They say we must use Tungsten instead. Of course I have alot of covered lead weights.I was fined a couple thousand in fines so ridiculous that even the head of Wisha couldnt understand. Wisha is our states form of OSHA.Its the biggest band of crooks liars and thieves I've ever seen and had to deal with. If I ever opened up another business it would not be in Wa State..

[VooDuuChild]

How long ago did this thread need to be started BMGW in order to get a good dialog going? I mean, this thread's almost a year old......