Northwest Fishing Reports

I grew up in Spokane and went to High School at North Central in the early fifties.
I belonged to a rifle club where I shot a 22 rifle once a week at the School.
I lived in the North side of town and once a week I would walk three blocks from My house,rifle in hand (no case for the rifle) and a box of shells in my pocket, to catch a City bus.Once I arrived at the school, I would walk to and enter the School.I would leave the rifle in My locker until classes were over.
The gun was then taken to the range for shooting practice. I then went to the bus stop with the gun and returned to My home.
How far would a kid(or anyone for that matter)get today.
Why are things so different?

Scarry what society has become. I used to live in the S.E. corner of Kansas. A rifle in the rear window was a staple of small town living. It was just another tool.

Personally I blame the fall of society on Gangsta Rap, GTA, MTV, and gangs.

Such a difference in mentality, I was afraid to dissapoint my mom or make her mad. Being grounded was the worst. Now, it seems like there is no respect anywhere, and the anger.... common people. I had to scold my son the other day because he raised his fist to another driver. WTF? No clue where that comes from, his mom. I dont even look at people when Im driving because you never know who's packing and has a problem with road rage. I sure dont want to loose one of my passangers to something sensless like that.

Personally, it seems that there is this idea out there where people simply think they are entitled.
Entitled to your respect no matter how they treat you.
Entitled to what ever they want without earning it.
Entitled to be supported wth out working.

Law enforcement has had to respond accordingly. Sad... Im looking forward to the Star Trek Utopian Society to get here

RaMcVey wrote: Personally, it seems that there is this idea out there where people simply think they are entitled.
Entitled to your respect no matter how they treat you.
Entitled to what ever they want without earning it.
Entitled to be supported wth out working.

Law enforcement has had to respond accordingly. Sad... Im looking forward to the Star Trek Utopian Society to get here

I can agree with that I also feel that it has to due too the fact the kids have more rights than the parents. When I was growing up you didn't think of talking back to your parents now days your kid can tell you to f off and you can't do anything about it.

Gangs maybe a bit, but I don't think MTV, or a video game can be blamed for a fall of society. I think that is crazy to say that a TV entertainment channel and a video game are responsible for ruining society.

Rap= maybe a little. It does cause some kids to change for the worse, but its not like they were clean cut, then began to turn corrupt or whatever you want to call it when they started listening to rap.
My opinion:
Society hasn't been ruined completely. Sure, there are some bad apples, more now then there have ever been.

I blame it partially to a loss in family values and parenting. I think society has also become too lax as well. Laws and parents aren't strict enough. Family values are diminishing. Reason i say partially is because there is not one, two, or even a few reasons why society is changed. There are many.

Most parents and children don't have the same relationships that parents and children did 40 years ago. Now kids have cell phones, incredible amounts of freedom, cars, etc. Parenting has become more lax and because of it, kids aren't sitting down at the dinner table with their family, establishing good relationships with their parents nor are parents being hard enough on kids. There is little respect for elders or parents in todays society compared to past generations. I think because of the lack in family morals and values, parenting has changed as well.

If a child is living under the roof of his/her parents, the rules established by the mom and the father should be followed by the child. I see kids walking over their parents and the mom or dad have no courage or authority to put their child in their place. Because of this, the hardworking mentality that kids need to do well in school and find a job/career isn't really present in as much of todays youth as we'd like to see. Trust me, I just graduated from HS a few years ago and I can't tell you how many kids thought HS was a joke and didn't care about grades. I went to high school with some real booksmart kids, but made dumb decisions all throughout high school. Didn't care enough about grades and pulled C's instead of the A's they were capable of, messed around with drugs, did stupid stuff in general, took things for granted, and so on... The parents of these kids didn't do nearly enough to get their kids shaped back in the right direction. Some parents are literally CLUELESS as to what was going on in their kids life. Some parents just wouldn't scold their kid or penalize them for their actions. If kids know that they can do almost anything without getting in trouble from mom and dad, then of course we are going to see kids doing stupid things. Your really going to let your kid continue to drive a $15,000 car you bought for them when you know your kid is doing crappy in school and making all sorts of stupid decisions?

The United States is also much more populous and life is so much different because of that alone. Life is going to be a lot different and attitudes aren't going to be the same when our nation has developed and become so populated.

A9 wrote:Gangs maybe a bit, but I don't think MTV, or video game can be blamed for a fall of society. I think that is crazy to say that an TV entertainment channel and a video game are responsible for ruining society.

My opinion:
Society hasn't been ruined completely. Sure, there are some bad apples, more now then there have ever been.

I blame it partially to a loss in family values and parenting. I think society has also become too lax as well. Laws and parents aren't strict enough. Family values are diminishing. Reason i say partially is because there is not one, two, or even a few reasons why society is changed. There are many.

Most parents and children don't have the same relationships that parents and children did 40 years ago. Now kids have cell phones, incredible amounts of freedom, cars, etc. Parenting has become more lax and because of it, kids aren't sitting down at the dinner table with their family, establishing good relationships with their parents nor are parents being hard enough on kids. There is little respect for elders or parents in todays society compared to past generations. I think because of the lack in family morals and values, parenting has changed as well.

If a child is living under the roof of his/her parents, the rules established by the mom and the father should be followed by the child. I see kids walking over their parents and the mom or dad have no courage or authority to put their child in their place. Because of this, the hardworking mentality that kids need to do well in school and find a job/career isn't really present in as much of todays youth as we'd like to see. Trust me, I just graduated from HS a few years ago and I can't tell you how many kids thought HS was a joke and didn't care about grades. I went to high school with some real booksmart kids, but made dumb decisions all throughout high school. Didn't care enough about grades and pulled C's instead of the A's they were capable of, messed around with drugs, did stupid stuff in general, took things for granted, and so on... The parents of these kids didn't do nearly enough to get their kids shaped back in the right direction. Some parents are literally CLUELESS as to what was going on in their kids life. Some parents just wouldn't scold their kid or penalize them for their actions. If kids know that they can do almost anything without getting in trouble from mom and dad, then of course we are going to see kids doing stupid things. Your really going to let your kid continue to drive a $15,000 car you bought for them when you know your kid is doing crappy in school and making all sorts of stupid decisions?

The United States is also much more populous and life is so much different because of that alone. Life is going to be a lot different and attitudes aren't going to be the same when our nation has developed and become so populated. thoughts

Wise thoughts from one so young!

A-9 Your Personal Best:-$ and that Reflection A-1 Grade:cheers:

Swede wrote:

A-9 Your Personal Best and that Reflection A-1 Grade


I agree with Swedes comment, 100%

I was being a lil facetious about the fall of society A9, my bad. You make good points though. I was there for the rise of MTV back when it was MUSIC TV, will never forget those Ozzy videos. The used to say it was Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll that would be our downfall.

My thoughts about games like GTA stand. Regardless of what different studies say, I think that games that put you in a roll of killing, killing cops, robbing and other illegal activities, does have an influence on behavior. IMO. OK, OK... Yes I played Doom, Duke 3D in the day, still do, Halo3 and an assortment of other violent games now. But I steer away from games that involves violence on authority and civilians.

Your points about the "Loss of Family Values" are right on. I think the overall respect in society for family and other beings has been lost to some extent. Seems like the number of bad guys has increased but then again, that's all we hear about in the news. With out looking at the actual numbers, its hard to accurately say.

What ever it is... I can say for sure. My kids are being brought up in a totally different world than I was brought up in.

RaMcVey wrote: My thoughts about games like GTA stand. Regardless of what different studies say, I think that games that put you in a roll of killing, killing cops, robbing and other illegal activities, does have an influence on behavior. IMO. OK, OK... Yes I played Doom, Duke 3D in the day, still do, Halo3 and an assortment of other violent games now. But I steer away from games that involves violence on authority and civilians.

I agree, I don't think video games like GTA are beneficial in any way. How detrimental are they? Who knows exactly, but just like me and you, there are plenty of peoople who play "shooter" video games who have turned out to be just fine.

Gentlemen, the truth is that I think all of you are partially right, and none are completely correct. So, knowing that I won't be completely correct either, let me through some things in.

50 years ago, 200 years ago, religion was a big factor in American Society. The majority of people believed in, taught their children, and ran their lives, based on the concept that there was a higher power, GOD! Not nearly so much any more according to all of the poles I have seen. I believe that it was Religion that created the family values that have been discussed so much. How many of you gentlemen are "religious" or even believers? You don't need to answer that one, I sure don't expect you to, but I am.

In the past, the US was more Conservative. It was a common belief that all we needed to do as individuals to improve ourselves was to work, get a little lucky, come up with a better mouse trap.

Now we have become far more liberal and we believe that our problem is that the rich don't pay their fair share of things. Back to the entitlement thing that was brought up. Now my success depends on the rich paying me my fair share for me doing nothing to earn it. That does not create any drive in my part to improve myself, or my surroundings.

I don't think it is too late for our country, but I do believe we are not through the worst of it yet.

Anglinarcher,You have mentioned some good points,especially the decline in those who believe in a higher power.

Also, I think the schools are responsible for many of the differences:

Teachers are not paid or promoted based upon merit;but, on the number of Degrees they earn, or on seniority.

Many Teachers attempt to pass on their Political Views to their Students.

Being politically correct in the schools:

Meaningless grades so the poorer students will not feel bad.

Lower the bar so the poorer students will understand and the smarter students will not be challenged.

The brightest students may get bored and not meet their full potential.(Unless they get in a gifted program)


Also, the decline in doing things as a Family:

Vacations.

Sitting down for dinner together.

Attending Religious Services

Going fishing

There is no one direction to point the finger. It is a combination of many things most stated here. 1 thing I would like to add an ! to is population growth:-& It is to easy for a kid to get lost in the shuffle. If a kid is a little shy or slow a public school can be a very intimidating place. I remember coming from a k-12 school with less than 500 kids to a 7-8 grade middle school with 5000 :compress: With that many kids/people and with the different situations stated above there are that many more bad apples to keep on the right side of the law. In the little town in Oregon I was in I walked down the street with my guns all the time. The riffle range was only a mile out of town. That was only 14 yrs ago but the cops and people all knew me and where I was going.

A nail was crushed through the board by several posts talking about people not being involved enough in their kid's lives. Allowing sitcoms and video games to raise their children created a handful of problems. Letting surrogates such as daycares and teachers do the work of molding children into people takes the responsibility off the parent and allows them to say "well, we tried, but they got in with this bad element".

That is where I think the finger pointing at teachers is horribly awry. Is the teacher the problem? Not in the least. If you as a parent instill your particular values in your child, and they know and understand the foundation of it, then a teacher challenging them to think will only strengthen their belief. To accuse teachers of imposing their particular view is just washing the parent's hands of responsibility. It is exactly like saying GTA is the sole reason your child committed a crime, not because you didn't do your part teaching them right and wrong.

AA, we both see the issue exactly the same, though we differ considerably on the direction. I agree that we have stopped teaching family values. You chose the route of God and religion for the explanation, I hold the parents solely responsible. I feel you can raise a kid without religion (this is a point to talk about, not a direct conflict against religion) not so much because it isn't true, but that you can teach all of the same moral values without having to be inside a church. This is another paramount foundation of the USA, where we can all teach our children appropriate values, regardless of whether we worship God, Allah, Muhammad, or follow the teachings of Buddah. As long as the skills, morals, and decision making capacity of the child is formed, the root reasoning doesn't particularly matter.

As for the rich having their money taken away, I would have to say that Warren Buffet and Bill Gates can have all the cash they want. They just need to pay the same damn 33% taxes that I do.

E

The majority of the people are in the US still of some sort of Christian faith. Still the MAJORITY. Most polls I've seen still lean 60-80 Christian. I imagine that is the particular "religion" you are referring to when you say as much, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it is still a, if not the, most dominant religious force in the US today, in every day life as well as the government (separation of church and state? LOL).

Here's a couple of these polls/stats I am referring to in case you wanted sources:
The Pew Forum
CUNY survey
Wiki

Also, I fail to see how whether you are religious or not holds any bearing on the effectiveness of one's child rearing, but to insinuate that the lack of such as a downfall is pretty narrow-minded.

Yes, the US was conservative in the past more than it is right now, but we are talking about a completely different brand of conservatism vs the likes of the Right-leaning ranks that are pervasive today. Think Ron Paul vs George Bush brands of conservative.

I do agree that younger people in general feel more entitled while having put in less time than in the past but I would not be so quick to point at political or religious views as the culprit. Moral values should transcend all of these things, so I try to be better to my fellow man because its the right thing to do, and not because I am building up points or some book tells me to.

I do agree that younger people in general feel more entitled while having put in less time than in the past but I would not be so quick to point at political or religious views as the culprit. Moral values should transcend all of these things, so I try to be better to my fellow man because its the right thing to do, and not because I am building up points or some book tells me to.

Bingo....

Yes, Christianity is still the dominant faith, but "Christian" gets bandied about alot, while its what the medical community would call spectral. Many different flavors wear the same name. Hard to tell a Lutheran and an Evangelical that they believe the same thing.

E

Gisteppo wrote:A nail was crushed through the board by several posts talking about people not being involved enough in their kid's lives. Allowing sitcoms and video games to raise their children created a handful of problems. Letting surrogates such as daycares and teachers do the work of molding children into people takes the responsibility off the parent and allows them to say "well, we tried, but they got in with this bad element".

I agree with You on the point many parents are doing a poor job of raising their children.Many are setting a bad example for their Children by smoking cigarettes,using drugs,getting drunk, and staying home sick to play golf etc.
I think there are many more single parent homes today then there were fifty years ago. Two parents improve the odds of being sucessful.

Also, who are the People that young children look up to?

Sport figures who take steroids and smoke pot.

Politicians who get caught in sex stings and don't pay their taxes.

CEO's who lead their companies into bankruptcy and still get a multimillion dollar bonus.

Movie stars who make sex tapes and change partners every year.

Even for those Parents who try to be responsible and do a good job of raising their Children to become lawabiding productive Members of Society, They have a tough row to hoe.

Is it a tough row, or is it an opportunity to show what happens when you make bad choices?

E

I'll throw another issue into the fire, lack of responsibility. Growing up I know what my parents expected of me and what would happen if I broke the rules. I push these same expectations on my kid and he is aware of them. Unfortunately some folks do not feel they are 100% responsible for their children. I can't grasp this concept any more than they can grasp mine. There were always folks who thought this way but in recent times their numbers have increased. I blame the way our society coddles children who break the law and the general increase in population. Who can remember their father telling them that if they got paddled in school that they will get it again at home? That kind of statement will get a parent in trouble these days and god forbid a school that still incorporates corporal punishment! Growing up, if you stayed over at a friend’s house, their parents would get on you as well so you minded your manners. I'm not advocating that all kids need to be spanked or physically punished, my kid responds well to non physical discipline, but for some it is the only way to get a point across to them. Kids want and need authority figures in their lives, if they don't get them at home they will find them somewhere else. How many of you know kids who won't listen to their parents but will jump when told to do something by a coach, teacher or nanny? These same children are easy prey for gangs as their parents have zero control over them but will be the first to pass the blame on to others when something goes awry.

Gisteppo wrote:Is it a tough row, or is it an opportunity to show what happens when you make bad choices?

E

It would be a lot easier to use my examples to show what happens when You make bad choices if:

The sports figure got banned from their sport.

The CEO ended up in prison.

The politician did not get reelected or appointed to a key position in Government

Gisteppo wrote:
Bingo....

Yes, Christianity is still the dominant faith, but "Christian" gets bandied about alot, while its what the medical community would call spectral. Many different flavors wear the same name. Hard to tell a Lutheran and an Evangelical that they believe the same thing.

E

True, but no other religious groups on the lists get distinctions between denominations and variations in faith either.