Carp or Northern Pike Minnow disposal - What is actually the best way to do it?

[Mossy]

Just curious about the "report" that pertained to the killing of the carp on long lake. Anybody else see the 6pm news today? Dead carp and lots of them floating around people's docks. So my question is to the person who posted that "report", are you still blaming the carp hunters?
As far as wdfw is concerned, they weren't killed by arrows. Coincidence?

[G-Man]

I read the same article and it seems that there is a die off going on in Long Lake. Initially there were carp carcasses left by bowhunters, however now dead carp are being found without any visible wounds. It this doesn't appear to be limited to carp alone, other species have been reported as being found along with the carp. Right now I guess it is up to the geeks to figure out what is causing this.

Dead carp washing up at Spokane-area lake

[Anglinarcher]

I want to make several observations here.

One, the Thumb is very quite on this. Seems that ever since I asked him for the Washington Code of Regulations number, one he said he would provide to us, he is absent. He has neither responded in this forum of to my PM.

Two, the State does not seem to be picking the carp up now that there is a natural die off. I do pitty the locals, but that can be the price of living near mother nature.

Three, the if the natural die off was limited only to carp, and not to other species, I would be

Four, I still want to see the code that The Thumb claims he can get us. I wonder if his neighbor was less then honest with him.

[G-Man]

AA - I'm sure the following is the code to which they are referring:


RCW 77.15.170
Waste of fish and wildlife — Penalty.

(1) A person is guilty of waste of fish and wildlife in the second degree if:
(a) The person kills, takes, or possesses fish, shellfish, or wildlife and the value of the fish, shellfish, or wildlife is greater than twenty dollars but less than two hundred fifty dollars; and
(b) The person recklessly allows such fish, shellfish, or wildlife to be wasted.
(2) A person is guilty of waste of fish and wildlife in the first degree if:
(a) The person kills, takes, or possesses fish, shellfish, or wildlife having a value of two hundred fifty dollars or more or wildlife classified as big game; and
(b) The person recklessly allows such fish, shellfish, or wildlife to be wasted.
(3)(a) Waste of fish and wildlife in the second degree is a misdemeanor.
(b) Waste of fish and wildlife in the first degree is a gross misdemeanor. Upon conviction, the department shall revoke any license or tag used in the crime and shall order suspension of the person's privileges to engage in the activity in which the person committed waste of fish and wildlife in the first degree for a period of one year.
(4) It is prima facie evidence of waste if a processor purchases or engages a quantity of food fish, shellfish, or game fish that cannot be processed within sixty hours after the food fish, game fish, or shellfish are taken from the water, unless the food fish, game fish, or shellfish are preserved in good marketable condition.

If that is the case, I bring up my previous point in that the law is vague and is open to interpretation. What constitutes waste? In terms of dollars, is a carp worth anything? Is it littering? Chumming? Feeding Wildlife? I suspect that the State won't lose a minute of sleep if someone whacks a bunch of carp and leaves them to rot. They do it all the time when they "treat" a lake to rid it of undesirable fish.

[FishTank]

I want to make several observations here.

One, the Thumb is very quite on this. Seems that ever since I asked him for the Washington Code of Regulations number, one he said he would provide to us, he is absent. He has neither responded in this forum of to my PM.

Two, the State does not seem to be picking the carp up now that there is a natural die off. I do pitty the locals, but that can be the price of living near mother nature.

Three, the if the natural die off was limited only to carp, and not to other species, I would be

Four, I still want to see the code that The Thumb claims he can get us. I wonder if his neighbor was less then honest with him.

I'm out on Long Lake pretty much every week. The only dead fish I've seen are carp, but we did see a big crappie floating on the water while we were driving down the lake, which could be related to the die off.

Just my personal take, but we noted a lot of brown, dead vegetation in the water. It could very well be oxygen depletion that is killing the fish. Not sure exactly what is going on with this lake, and I kind of hope this isn't a deliberate act by landowners or lake management. As if this body of water hasn't been in the national spotlight enough for being so polluted...

Other than that, the trips have been good so far. Hope I don't start seeing dead bass.

[FishTank]

AA - I'm sure the following is the code to which they are referring:


RCW 77.15.170
Waste of fish and wildlife — Penalty.

(1) A person is guilty of waste of fish and wildlife in the second degree if:
(a) The person kills, takes, or possesses fish, shellfish, or wildlife and the value of the fish, shellfish, or wildlife is greater than twenty dollars but less than two hundred fifty dollars]

If that is the case, I bring up my previous point in that the law is vague and is open to interpretation. What constitutes waste? In terms of dollars, is a carp worth anything? Is it littering? Chumming? Feeding Wildlife? I suspect that the State won't lose a minute of sleep if someone whacks a bunch of carp and leaves them to rot. They do it all the time when they "treat" a lake to rid it of undesirable fish.

Is it really a common practice to "treat" lakes? This is the first state where I've come across this practice, and I find it a bit scary to think they bomb the lakes with powerful toxins and replant the lake.

Seriously. What is up with this state?? We have more problems with regulating waters and battling invasive species than I ever heard back east.

[racfish]

Our state cracks me up using phrases like"wasting fish or wildlife" Our state is the biggest waste machine of any state.I never knew all these idiotic rules were even in print.Treating lakes in Wa state is nothing new.They use a powder called rotanote (sp) . This chemical kills the fish by suffocating them. They did Lake Kachess a few years ago. I remember alot of panfish were killed in Tanwax ,Kapowsin,Lk Wilderness also.For some reason our state just hates the natural order of things.

[Anglinarcher]

G-Man, The Thumb specifically gave a $271 dollar fine if I recall the amount correctly. I did not review the thread, so I don't remember if it was in his Long Lake post of this thread series, but your code has no such dollar amount. I agree with you, the idea that Carp has value is vague at best, unenforceable at most. It would seem to apply more to commercial fisheries where fish have a defined value.

Fish Tank, eradication of fish in lakes is actually quite common in the West. They argue, sometimes correctly, that non-native species, or undesirable species, do harm to the ecosystem so they kill out the non-native species, as well as the native that are also there. They then re-plant native or desirable species into the system. Keep in mind that Carp are not native to the US, they were planted in the US originally by a well intentioned, but obviously stupid, Federal Fish an Wildlife director as a way to provide food to Midwest farmers in their shallow ponds.

Killing of fish using the chemical, which comes from South America and is actually a natural plant product, works by preventing the gills from working. You can eat the fish, or drink the water, without harm to animals. The product breaks down with sunlight and temperature in a few days.

[Stacie Kelsey]

Please keep in mind that Pikeminnow are classified as a Game Fish and fall under the 'wasteful' rule.

stace

[Stacie Kelsey]

Our state cracks me up using phrases like"wasting fish or wildlife" Our state is the biggest waste machine of any state.I never knew all these idiotic rules were even in print.Treating lakes in Wa state is nothing new.They use a powder called rotanote (sp) . This chemical kills the fish by suffocating them. They did Lake Kachess a few years ago. I remember alot of panfish were killed in Tanwax ,Kapowsin,Lk Wilderness also.For some reason our state just hates the natural order of things.

Rotenone is a very useful tool in lakes where warmwater species are detrimental. Those types of lakes would be what I call 'nursery' lakes. Lakes that fry/fingerling are stocked in. Some lakes we try to manage as trout waters only, however, there are folks out there wanting warmwater fish in them so they take it upon themselves to stock those fish and that creates a problem. Other issues would be invasive/exotic species such as northern pike that get into a lake and need to be removed.

stace

[racfish]

Why are they a Gamefish? Does the bounty make them gamefish?If they are a gamefish shouldnt they be released unharmed?I think this state needs to figure this out a little better.Do we kill them and get a ticket or release them so they can eat everything in sight.Lets go WDFW.

[Stacie Kelsey]

They became a Game Fish as a part of the bounty program. I started my career on that program back in 1990 when the first Sport Reward Fishery season started. The goal of the project has never been complete eradication. The idea was that with a 10-20% reduction in the squawfish populations on the Columbia River, predation on juvenile salmonids could be reduced by 50%.

The reason this bounty is held on the Columbia is because the dams significantly increased the populations of squawfish and their ability to eat juvenile salmonids.

My first job was dam angling of the dams on the lower Columbia. Watching the squawfish boil in the water as they feed on juveniles is something else.

These fish are native and even as predatory fish have their places. The problem is when you create a situation for them to over populate (the dams) and create a juvenile salmonid buffet for them, then you try to step in and make it better.

stace

[racfish]

I wasnt pinning any of this on you Stacie.I used you as a state representative,not as a target.So what are the rules then for Squawfish (Pike-minnow). Kill or let go to devour more smolt? I realize that they do have a purpose or the Good Lord wouldnt have created them.I would think that if you kill them and toss them back wouldnt they feed other life forms?In this day of polluted waters and high pcb levels What should we do?

I used to hack doggies in the sound. Then I realized that when you kill one 20 more come in for the frenzy.So now I just cut my line and release them.I do same for skates and ratfish.Not Racfish.Hehe

[Stacie Kelsey]

They need to be released if you don't plan on keeping them like you would other game fish. Granted, they will be released to eat fish, but that is not unlike releasing tiger musky, bass or even trout species that eat other fish. I can really see both sides of the coin. They can be a nuisance and they do have their place.

If I had more time, I might be out there fishing for them on the reward program!!!

[racfish]

Thank you Stacie. A couple weeks ago I caught a Sqwah off of Leschi Dock. A lil boy was there admiring my catch. I was gonna operate on it and the lil boy asked me if I was gonna kill it. I felt bad.He looked at me "like why". I told him he could throw it back if he wanted. What could I say? See I do have a heart. Hehehe

[Stacie Kelsey]

LOL! That's a cute story!

I was doing some electroshocking a couple years back and was sidled up near a dock after we had shocked up some fish. I was doing some stomach sampling and of course that attracted a bit of a crowd. The kids were especially grossed out when the stomach contents came rushing out of the fish!

[Anglinarcher]

So, Stacie, weigh in on the original intent of this thread. IS there a law about shooting Carp and leaving them on the water? If so, what is the law, what are the fines, where do we find it?

If there is no specific law about it, what is the suggested method of disposal?

I am pleased to see you jumping in, but you seem to be overlooking the first page and a half.

[nickbell]

I read the same article and it seems that there is a die off going on in Long Lake. Initially there were carp carcasses left by bowhunters, however now dead carp are being found without any visible wounds. It this doesn't appear to be limited to carp alone, other species have been reported as being found along with the carp. Right now I guess it is up to the geeks to figure out what is causing this.

Dead carp washing up at Spokane-area lake

SPOKANE -- The cause of a recent die-off of hundreds of carp in Long Lake (also known as Lake Spokane) remains unknown, but it may be a natural occurrence.

State health authorities say the situation is not a human health emergency, although residents should take basic hygiene precautions if they recreate in the area or handle fish carcasses.
Most of the fish carcasses are expected to decompose completely within a couple of weeks. Lakeshore homeowners who want to be rid of the smell and sight of the fish carcasses more quickly are encouraged to bury them, taking standard personal-hygiene precautions, such as using gloves and thoroughly washing equipment.

State agencies do not have sufficient staff or equipment to pick up the dead fish.
Washington Department of Ecology (DOE) water-quality experts ruled out toxic substances as a cause of the die-off. They also ruled out low dissolved-oxygen levels in the lake water as a cause, because almost all the dead fish are carp, which can live in water with very low oxygen levels.

"All the species of fish in Lake Spokane would have been affected if there were toxic pollutants," said Mike Hepp of Ecology. "In addition, we would see small fish dying as well as larger fish, and that’s not the case here."

Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) district fish biologist Chris Donley said the die-off may have occurred because of spawning stress on the carp and temperature fluctuations.
"Since all the dead carp appear to be adult fish, it’s highly possible they came near shore to spawn when it was cool a few weeks ago, waited around for the warmer water temperatures they prefer, then were stressed with very elevated water temperatures very quickly, and became susceptible to natural pathogens like bacteria or viruses," Donley explained. "Things like this happen more often than most people realize, usually with fish carcasses either sinking to lake bottoms or decomposing in remote areas where no one sees them."
A dead carp was examined July 14 by a WDFW fish pathologist but a specific cause of death could not be determined. Organ and tissue samples have been submitted to other laboratories for further testing, but results will not be available for several weeks.

[Mossy]

so it's pretty much cut and dry then.....aliens again.

[FishTank]

Please keep in mind that Pikeminnow are classified as a Game Fish and fall under the 'wasteful' rule.

Is this classification of the Northern Pike Minnow in accordance with the will and desire of Washington residents? Furthermore, would it matter if it's not? Sometimes I'm left with the impression that the WDFW thinks it knows much better how to maintain the waters.

Still have to say that this idea of treating lakes sounds like a horrible thing to do.

What would be a good legal way to try to instigate a reduction in the population of northern pike minnow on Lake Spokane?