Artificial structure question. Is putting this in lakes in WA state legal?

[StuckOnTheBank]

http://www.porcupinefishattractor.com/fishing_tips.htm

Is this type of artificial structure legal in the state of Washington? I was also curious about home made structures commonly referred to as crappie condos. You make these with a five gallon plastic bucket filled with 30 lbs.of cement containing pieces of 5-8 feet long 1/2 inch pvc plumbing pipe. This is then sunk to act as an artificial structure on which algae grows to attract fish. Thanks, XXX XXXXXX, Redmond WA.
.............................................................................................................................................................................

I'm not aware of any regulation that would allow this activity, or type of fishing. As an after though, I suspect the agency would have a really big problem with folks using such devices to "aid" with fishing, as there would have to be some regulatory authority on what can be placed (concrete with rebar, rocks and other debris, or these types of devices) to be specifically used to fish with. If you have a number of folks using such practices, or if such equipment is advertised, eventually you may have a debris issue on the bottom that may eventually affect habitat.

Thank you,

WDFW, Enforcement Program
360-902-2936
FAX: 360-902-2155

Poaching hotline 1-877-933-9847
WDFW website: http://wdfw.wa.gov/
Enforcement website: http://wdfw.wa.gov/enf/enforce.htm
Report a Poacher (TIP): http://wdfw.wa.gov/enf/poaching.htm


..............................................................................................................................................................................

Thoughts? To me he/she sounds like they don't really know if it's legal or not.

[uncyboo]

To me it's more of what was not said than what was. They say they are not aware of any regulation to allow it, but yet seem careful enough NOT to say they are not aware of any regulation that would dis-allow it either. What I got out of your response is that while it's not illegal, this particular officer, agent, or whoever want's to dicourage the activity with the concern that thousands of potential anglers cluttering up the lake bottoms with artificial structure. My personal opinion on that is, if it ain't happened yet, it porbably ain't gonna. Anyway, the response seems very vague to me, which seems to me go for it. Save the e-mail and put it in your boat.

[Anonymous]

OK Everybody Read and Understand.

As I've said before WDFG doesn't have a thing to say about it, it's not within their juristiction to say yeah or neah. So that means asking them means nothing, no matter how bad you want them to make a ruling, they can't and won't.

I've been down this path before and I've sunk artificial habitat. It's covered by the 1972 Washington Shoreline Management Act. Contact the Dept of Ecology if you want to do this legally. Here is the link:

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/sea/sma/

[StuckOnTheBank]

I sent the e-mail to both WDFG and the Dept. of Ecology at the same time. I didn't think I would hear from either.

[Bodofish]

chances are slim to none on getting an answer back from the Dept of Ecology. This is why; Most envionmental laws are poorly written and very vague so they are left up to them selves to interpret. As you probably guessed they will error on their safe side and let the courts sort it out.

You will need to apply for a variance in the Shoreline Mgt. Act.. If you want to ask questions go to one of the offices and get someone in a headlock and ask them.

[Anglinarcher]

[quote="Bodofish"]chances are slim to none on getting an answer back from the Dept of Ecology. This is why]

Let's make something very clear, Bodofish and I are not exactly best friends, so the following comment is not made by one of his fanboys.

READ WHAT BODOFISH HAS SAID AND UNDERSTAND. If you want to do this legally, you need to contact the Dept of Ecology and "get someone in a headlock". You need to "apply for a variance in the Shoreline Mgt. Act".

Now, if you chose to do this without permission, that is up to you.

[StuckOnTheBank]

Well, between work, family, fishing, building crappie condos and the 5-6 hours of sleep I get a night, I don't have a whole lot of time to be going by an office and getting somebody in a rassling match. I guess sometimes it's best to do like my son's T-shirt says: "SHUT UP AND FISH".

[Bodofish]

If it's any help I think those porcupine deals are marketed at the folks down south with who own private lakes. Since there are no private lakes in Washington, only the property around them, let your conscience be your guide.
Some times it's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

[StuckOnTheBank]

Hello XXX:

Below is the response to your question about the artificial fishing structure. It doesn’t sound like they are illegal but they may require a permit depending on the location, size of the structure, and impact on public use. It would probably be good to contact your local county government who manages the Shoreline Master Plan to be sure.

You might also want to check with the contacts at the Dept. of Fish and Wildlife that Doug Pineo included in his reply below.

I hope this helps.

Laurie Dumar
Washington State Department of Ecology
Agency Publications Manager and Plain Talk Co-Coordinator
(360) 407-6606
ldum461@ecy.wa.gov
...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Laurie,

These devices are pretty innocuous as far as I can tell. Their placement may well require a Hydraulics Project Approval from WDFW. To qualify as a substantial development subject to the permitting requirements of the SMA and local Shoreline Master Programs (SMPs), they would have to result in an impact to normal public use or exceed the $5,718.00 threshold value defining a substantial development. So, if they messed with public recreational use, diving, etc., or if placing a forest of them would cost over the threshold, they’d require permitting under SMA. If they require permitting, it would likely be an unclassified shoreline conditional use permit since I’m not aware of a local SMP which specifically addresses these devices. Most newer SMPs address fish habitat enhancement or restoration, though these are artificial structures, not natural ones.

Doug Pineo
Shorelands Specialist
Washington Dept. of Ecology
Eastern Regional Office
4601 N. Monroe St.
Spokane, WA 99205
509-329-3416
509-329-3529 FAX
dpin461@ecy.wa.gov
................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Hi Doug:

Can you answer the question below? If not, do you know who can?

Thanks.

Laurie

Laurie Dumar
Washington State Department of Ecology
Agency Publications Manager and Plain Talk Co-Coordinator
(360) 407-6606
ldum461@ecy.wa.gov

[Desertcreek]

I think it's funny that the department of Ecology told you to contact WDFW. Dump em in!

[ckim85]

back in Oregon we used to live close to a Lake where there was an artificial concrete structure closer to the shore which I'm not sure if someone put those there or if the state put them there. I do remember however that they had to remove them due to safety reasons for kids and people in general swimming in the lake.

If that has anythign to do with it, if this lake is a popular lake that people swim in, I would assume they would be against putting structure in that can potentially injure. But then again, i don't know the whole back story to that issue so it might be awhole different story here.

[Bodofish]

Do it before they change their minds!!! Print the email so you don't loose it.

[Anglinarcher]

I think I may need to start making some of these as well.

I can see it now, no officer, MY structures did not cost $5K, and I don't know who those other 300 structures belong to.