Sammamish

[TrackerPro16]

I am not sure the fish on Lake Wa or Lake Samamish get enough pressure to worry about. There has been a number of days I was out fishing and I was the only boat. AND I have never taken a limit. I don't think the number of fish taken is all that many for the size of the lakes. i guess people should just start not mentioning numbers and only show one fish on the reports...
F&W and the tribes watch the numbers of all the fish pretty close and adjust accordingly. Or at least I believe that. The limit numbers are there for a reason. Poaching (again, I believe) probably does more harm.
The number of fishermen (people) is declining, not increasing. Kids are not much into getting their hands dirty now days.

[Mike Carey]

I can appreciate the concern but anecdotal observations are not science. The conversations I and guide Paul Lewis have had with WDFW fish biologists we have been told the population is healthy. Not to mention, there is real concern regarding cutthroat predation with the battle to recover the kokanee and maintain the salmon returns.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to argue with WDFW biologists about whether they are right or not. It's what they do for a living.

As to laying the blame on our members, it's somewhat unfair IMO. The Seattle Saturday radio shows report on the same fishery and they have audiences of thousands of anglers. Other web sites and Face Book groups talk about it. The reality is there are many causes of pressures on our fisheries. Not to mention an ever growing State population.

[salmonkiller]

It takes me 50 minutes to get to this lake so I have only fished it two times in my life. Both times we did very well. The first time (black Friday) was insane….. Limit within 45 min. Then we fished it a few weeks ago with near the same success…. The fish are not huge.. 14-15 inches and a few over 18… but there is some concerns about amount of fish in the lake…

Before all the hype of Lake Sammamish I would fish lake Washington for Cutthroat this time of the year
We would have minimal success compared to Lake Sammamish… I know Lake Washington has fish in it but it was severally polluted from pesticide run-off and has had a lot of environmental issues (alga blooms).. 30 or so years ago… But was it ever over fished?

I don’t think Lake Sammamish was subject to the harsh pollution issues Lake Washington had, but I sure hope Lake Sammamish doesn’t get fished out….The last time we fished there were boats all over the place trolling for cutthroat.

It Reminds me of Kokanee fishing on American lake about 4 years ago….. Once the word got out about the size and quantity of the fish in the lake the boat launch and lake reminded me of the Blue creek hatchery area on the Cow during Steelhead season!!! Crazy Crazy crazy!!! Unfortunately since the gold rush of that season; the large ones are hard to come by.

[Mike Carey]

I'm not so sure about the water quality on Sammamish. I haven't done much research, but it is surrounded by expensive homes that use a lot of chemical products to keep the lawns looking nice. I seem to recall an oxygenation issue a few years back.

Links for those interested:

http://green2.kingcounty.gov/lakes/LakeSammamish.aspx

http://www.kingcounty.gov/services/envi ... amish.aspx

http://www.savelakesammamish.org/

http://www.walpa.org/waterline/december ... se-change/

[Fishin'Daze]

Hopefully our lakes won't get over fished. But.........as long as sites like this exist they probably will. Let's face it much more people can find fishing info faster thus leading to over fishing. Sorry to say but that's why I quit giving info on my favorite spots. You should do the same. Fishing is about exploring and finding favorite spots and learning techniques by your own experiences.
I know some of you will bash me but deep down you this is true. STOP selling out your favorite spots and techniques.

[Amx]

Yup, me too on not telling anyone where 'my spots' are. One guy here did show his spots on Youtube. Those spots got fished out quickly from people keeps the fish. Sometimes I don't even like to say what lure I use. And I post much fewer fishing reports than I use to. And fishing different lake than my home lake.

And I don't even give the info when someone asks what part, or which area, or which end of a lake I had fished. I do catch fish all around the local lake, but not always each time I fish that lake. On successive days I can catch fish one day, then the next day nothing in the same spot, area, and even end of the lake. It just changes too quickly to depend on more fish in the same area from day to day. Some people don't seem to understand that.

I enjoy figuring out a lake, or new lake, on my own, been doing that for over 50 years. Makes it MUCH more satisfying to catch fish after figuring it out.

[salmonkiller]

I post some reports….but they are minimal. For me posting a report is more of “showing off or look what I caught.”

I fish for the personal satisfaction of “figuring them out”

I have gotten a few personal emails asking me for tips and techniques used but I rarely reply to them.

Does this make me a selfish sportsman?

[Amx]

Yup.

I've replied to those PMs. But only give generic info, which is good for any lake. Ya, know, crank baits, worms, top water, but no brand names.

[Mike Carey]

Interesting conversation. And I do understand your positions. I just have a different perspective. And biased. I'll be the first to admit.

One thing is for sure. The genie is out and it isn't going back in the bottle. For me, it's all about exploring the diversity our region has to offer. I'm going to be 60 and long dead before I can fish all the places I want to explore. I'm so grateful for others that share new places for me to check out. I'll never be able to fish them all. We have literally tens of thousands of lakes, rivers, and saltwater locations to fish in the Pacific Northwest. I'll never be zipper-lipped about sharing new destinations with my fellow anglers. We all benefit.

If you didn't believe that on some level you wouldn't waste your time checking into this site to read fishing reports.

I've always maintained it's up to each of us to find our personal comfort zone as to what, if any, information we want to share with others. My comfort zone must just be a little bigger than most.

[Mike Carey]

I completely understand where you're coming from Mike. There is an abundance of knowledge on this website, and I have learned a lot from members sharing their knowledge. I have shared mine from time to time.

To be honest I've never listened to any of the radio shows, I see most of the reports from this site and one other.

It is just hard for me personally, to watch one of the great native trout fisheries in the state get so much publicity, and in return so much pressure lately. The frequency of reports mixed with the number of sizeable trout taken is what worries me.

A valid concern to which I would offer you a challenge - contact WDFW and talk to this region's fish biologists. See what they have to say. Decide if it makes sense - and report what you learn and what your opinions are to the rest of us. Educate the readers and let's see where it takes us. We can all learn from each other.
I'd be really interested. Like I said, I talked with them but maybe I was hearing what I wanted to hear. You'd approach it from a different point of view I think and offer the members your take on what you learned. We'd all be better educated for it.

[TrackerPro16]

Soooo, you guys read and belong to a fishing forum. You gather information that I 'presume' you use to improve your fishing. But once you have 'your' area's and techniques, you won't share or help others doing the same thing... Got it!
Seen this sooooo often in my 63 years in hunting, fishing (everything) I am not surprised, but it is always a bit of a dissappointment. Everyone learns from someone. And I am convinced there are not any true 'secret' places. Ever. Unless you are at some remote high altitude lake you hiked in 14 miles to get to. Even then you will probably find out someone has been there. My brother in law told me about one of his 'secret honey hole' spots on the 'threat of death' if I told anyone about it. On a very public part of a lake. AND I kept thinking I knew exactly where he was talking about. Got there and it was a spot I had fished 20 years before. And there was seven boats in the same area when I pulled in. Was it word of mouth? Did they all use maps to find the area? Don't know. Didn't ask. I do remember it being the 'popular' area to find fish 20 years before though.
The stat's are that there are less people enjoying the outdoor sports. That is one reason they are promoting a number of different outdoor recreational sports. To get more people involved. Less people, less interest, less money, less control BY the people. That is one of the reasons Federal lands get sold to the States, who sell off part or all of them. 100% of the time. If not enough people care and interest lags, SOMEONE will make the decision.
You hold tight to your 'hard fought' knowlege you gained from others either directly or by reserch. Maybe yell at someone or be pissed at them for being in 'your' special area. It would be much better if no one else fished or hunted or whatever so only YOU can do it. Sounds like when someone buys an area and makes it private, pissing off everyone that used to enjoy the area. But I am sure you are all Ok with that. I mean, after all, they put in all the hard work to be able to afford it, right?
Off the soap box now.

[Fishin'Daze]

Some good thoughts. No there aren't any "secret" spots but giving out info over the internet will surely put more pressure on the "advertised" fishing area.
At first Sites like this I thought was a good idea - and to some extent may be. Do I feel guilty for visiting these sites and not sharing? Yes to some extent - but I value my fishing much more.
Yea we all learn from others and our own experiences but that doesn't mean that sharing with the entire audience on the internet is in the fishes best interest.
My great fishing years of enjoyment has resulted from exploring and learning with my dad, brother and a few close fishing buddies. If I meet someone in person yea I'll share some info but certainly not over the internet.
I don't know if fisherman numbers are decreasing or increasing. But for sure if advertised there will be more fisherman in your area (if fishing was good).
Sooooo......think hard before you advertise your fishing areas.

[jonb]

I learned that sharing locations ruined my fishing spots and angered the locals when i lived in washington state. I regret it. Then I learned that other anglers are like mushrooms; feed them s*** and keep them in the dark.

Does that make me a selfish angler? Answer:i don't care, im not here to make people like me, not my job to serve up locations on a silver platter.

I'll share a report once in a while and share info regarding technique, conditions etc. But never EVER share your spot on the internet if you like the idea of solitude or anything approaching that. It also takes away from the achievement aspect of stumblimg into an awesome new spot you found yourself. Much more rewarding. The prerequisite for aquiring locations should always be to do your own footwork and homework first.

Since ive been in canada its been pure bliss. You'll just about get burned at the cross for advertising spots on the internet.
You can't even post pictures if people can tell where you are without someone pming you to stop it. (except the vedder which is akin to reiter) ive pounded so many km's its innumerable many of which were devoid of people and packed full of fish. IMO This is at least partially the result of locals being intolerant about hotspotting. The quality of the angling experience is much better here.

[Amx]

Which in why all my pictures have the fish laying on the boat deck, no background to show where it was caught. And why I decided to not use my video camera to 'film' my catches.

[Mike Carey]

jonb, thanks for your perspective.

I have been reporting and running this site for over twenty years and can honestly say I have never once noticed an area "blowing up" after I reported on it. The reality is all popular spots in Washington have already long ago been discovered by most anglers and they aren't secrets.

I think that Saturday morning radio fishing shows that go out to tens of thousands of anglers do much more to blow up locations, mainly rivers, but also some local lakes.

Lakes I'm more than happy to share information on. When you have a 4,000 acre lake like Kachess jammed with kokanee and no one is fishing it, it's just a waste of a resource. Again, my outlook is by diverting anglers to these opportunities and spreading them out we all benefit in many ways.

The way I use this site is to make note of interesting fisheries that get reported on and add them to my "bucket list" for future consideration of places to explore. That's where I think posting reports really shines and benefits us all.

I'm willing to bet that every person that bemoans the reports that gets posted does the exact same thing. Otherwise, why waste your time coming to this site to read reports? It makes no sense to me. If I don't like something in my life I leave it behind. I don't come back to it again and again to get frustrated. That's just self destructive behavior which I do my best to avoid having in my life.

Rivers and the salmon/steelhead that anglers pursue - hard to compare our dismal situation to B.C., you're fortunate to be up there. As you know, with such limited options left down here the places guys go are always going to be crowded. I pretty much stopped fishing terminal areas years ago. Just not much fun standing shoulder to shoulder for a slim chance at a fish. Not my idea of enjoyment or relaxation.

I also disagree with your premise that we should only feel achievement by stumbling on locations ourselves. I do think we are talking different situations - I believe you're focusing on rivers and I'm focusing on lakes. I'd never talk about a specific river location in a little fished place. I totally agree with you on that one. But lakes? I'm more than willing to share and thank those that also spread the word and help help us all learn about the thousands of unique and interesting places to fish in the Pacific NW.

And if I figure out a lake and do well on it I feel achievement. I don't think that achievement is any less because I learned about the location on NWFR. I still had to go out and apply my angling skills to catch fish. But honestly, I don't generally approach fishing as an ends to a means (feeling achievement). I approach fishing as a core part of my being that must be periodically nourished by the act of fishing. The final tally of fish caught has always been secondary for me. I suspect that you are the same way...

[Fishin'Daze]

Mike,
With all do respect your opinion on this matter -IMO- is biased. I'm sure you created this site with good intentions by giving interested parties an avenue to learn about fishing areas and techniques. I gotta give you a huge congratulations!
Your site has been a huge success. I'm sure many have used this site to further their fishing experiences. This is where I see some value to this site.
I've visited this site for quite a while now and gotta say still enjoy reading about other fishing experiences and techniques.
Recently my close fishing buddies and I have started to wonder about the pressure sites like this have placed on local fishing areas. By reading other comments it sounds like other as well have the same thoughts/concerns.
Let me give you an example;
I own a boat so I can go pretty much anywhere I decide to fish. But at times I like to go old school and fish from shore and yes with a lounge chair. Actually some of my best times have happened using this "secret" technique. Lounge chair and a beer with good friends. really doesn't get much better than that.
One of my favorite spots to fish from shore is a small lake with limited access. Usually locals will be there and for the most part kept very clean (garbage) and really good fishing. This spot was never really crowded and we could always find a place to fish from. One day someone fish this area - had good luck - and posted it on your site. the following weekend it was very crowded with no place to fish. In fact as we stood their wondering where else to go you could here others yelling at each other, music blasting and cars parked everywhere. A few weeks later we went back to this lake and "wow" garbage everywhere. Up to this day this little gem is no longer the same and the fishing is not nearly as good in fact it's really not worth visiting anymore.
Of course, Mike, this isn't your fault nor do I blame you. There's usually a few bad apples in a crowd. But I really do feel without the advertisement on your site we would still be visiting this little gem of a lake.
Yea big lakes can take more pressure and probably can handle more advertising than small lakes. Some "small" fish as you mention can handle more pressure than larger fish.
But let ask all of you a question.
How often do you see great bass fishing talked about on this site (area and technique)? Not to often because we know more pressure means less quality and quantity of bass.
Maybe it's time to rethink sites like this for other types of info.
Again I say - STOP selling out your fishing areas and techniques.

[jonb]

Mike,
I agree with you about places like lake kachess, which i do think are underutilized but not all lakes are. There are a few subalpine lakes i made the mistake of reporting on that, I'm sorry to say are no longer what they were when i found them, hese lakes were absolutely off the radar of 99.99999% of anglers and were highlighted here by me. This is one of my regrets.

Also in bc there are alot of trophy lakes in the interior. Some are known and talked about, some are not. If you talk about the ones that aren't talked about it will be frowned upon. The known lakes are an armada like flotilla of all ranks of anglers, an unknown or non-talked (aka zipperlip lake) about lake of the same size and calibre will have 10 or less people even on a holiday. We're talking about lakes with brookies that regularly break 5lbs and rainbows that will go to 12 lbs hell if it isn't 4lbs its a tiddler.

Its not that the lake will get overfished (although it might)if people knew, its that those who do know have found it themselves and have room to spread out, the people you do run into are cordial and almost always are pleasant to be around as opposed to the unwashed masses that arrive at those known lakes and will crowd you out when they see you hook that 3lb "tiddler" they will litterally set their anchor close enough to you to smell their arm pit. This is what i mean by improved angler experience, who wants to get crowded by inconsiderate rude people whem you can fish a whole lake by yourself or with minimal competition?

I do again agree about the achievement bit. While it does enrich my experience it isnt only what im going for and yes fishing is part of my being as you described. But i do feel leaving something to be explored is important. Not every place should be cataloged and put on the internet for those of us who do want to discover it for ourselves.

And of coarse rivers are to a further extreme, unless there is something that puts people off (sloppy mud banks on the slough) i won't talk about them ever period. IMO they never should be named at all. Except maybe the columbia/cowlitz/fraser due to their sheer size.

[Mike Carey]

Guys, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I mean seriously, the only option you're presenting me is to go zipper lip and then this site becomes no different than many Facebook groups, just a place for showing off a catch and stoking your ego. Ugh.

Over the years there's been so many lakes that have been reported on and then people freaked about them "blowing up, trash everywhere, etc,etc. And in every case (in my experience) when I have returned the lake and shoreline looked exactly the same as when I had last been there. So obviously we have had different experiences in this regard.

Bass guys are kind of like steelhead guys, although there are exceptions. My fishing buddy Bob Johansen comes to mind. I don't think he ever expressed the need to be zipper lipped when showing me lakes in his area. He was always happy to share the information with others.

There are always going to be that small minority of pigs that abuse the resource and leave messes. I refuse to deny sharing places with decent anglers just because some bums will leave their trash and abuse the resource.

Finally, I would never disagree with your decision to keep places to yourselves. It's your right and not my place to change your opinion. That's why we added a "Secret Reports" option. By the same token, I expect members on this site to not post comments on other members fishing reports cajoling them to try to get them to become secretive or shaming them for their decision to share information. That includes sending PMs to them.

I appreciate your bringing this discussion to the Forum. This is the appropriate place to express your opinions. Thank you.

[jonb]

My origional response wasn't directed at you mike. Only my response to yours. My target audience are the knowledgable reporters. Im not saying dont share info at all. Im saying use discretion especially when talking about locations. Pretty much dont talk about em. Instead report on how you learned to find your info and teach the tools necessary to aquire ones own information instead, if thats even necessary.

Its never been my intent to change the site. You can run your site however you like and thats fine. And people just learning will post about obvious places which is fine. For those of us who have knowledge of those special places that shouldn't be discussed please use discretion. This Is the entirety of my point. I am not saying you should go all hush hush with your site. Im 100% directed at the community. Im saying the fishing community should try to embrace the importance of keeping locations to themselves in the same way it happens in BC and in most of the rest of north america. Because everyone stands to benefit at some level.

The cat isn't completely out of the bag by the way either. Ive been on this site for years and have read through an incredible amount of content, there is more out there that hasnt been discussed which is great but as population grows i fear that won't necessarily remain the case. There are still secrets yet to be discussed on the internet, not many, but what are left, are gems to be protected and cherished.

Mike I appreciate and respect your tolerance towards opposing opinions and viewpoints on your website. It takes a very mature and fair person to do that. I appreciate the opportunity to have this discussion here. Thank you.

[Mike Carey]

no worries jonb, I appreciate the points of view and feedback, and of course know you've been a long time member and poster.

Anglers live in a big tent, lot's of room for difference of opinions.