BAFFLED by BOTTOM BOUNCERS

[blufin loui]

I like to catch and eat the "Elusive" (to me anyway) Walleye. I've tried stick baits, blade bates. spinners, jigs, plastics, the lowly worm, and some others I can't even remember. I've heard about and read about Bottom Bouncers, But whats the big deal, Right! Well not so right. From the reports I've read, and the pics I've seen there is more to this Bottom Bouncing than I first realized. Now I want to give it a try. My "unlearned" attempts did not turn out so well, so I posed a few questions to a select few. They have been gracious enough to share some of their techniques and advise, and now I'm really interested. My thanks to all those who have shared their secrets as these have started me on the path of wanting to learn more.
In just a few short weeks I have already discoverd several "mistakes/misconceptions" I had concerning the use of the Bottom Bouncer, thanks to the shared information from successfull Walleye fishermen/women, and we (Cindy and I) have put some walleye in the boat, and in the skillet. MMMMM MMMM Good.
IF there are those who would be willing to share their successful techniques/tactics on the use of the Bottom Bouncer in its use to catch Walleye, Here is the place to do it.
ONE thing I will ask is to keep it to sharing your walleye fishing information, and not turn the thread into a 'Pissing match" of one persons technique being better than someone elses. So Please Keep it Positive!
Everyone has something important to say, but it is up to us as an individual to pick and choose the information offered that will benifit our own pursuit.
Thank You in advance to all who are willing to share fishing information, and I for one look forward to becoming a better Walleye fisherman because of the information already shared, and information that continues to be shared through this WebSite.

Post On!!

[kjackson]

What do you want to know about bottom bouncers? They are not difficult piece of gear to handle. I've used them a lot, primarily with snelled spinners, Spin-N-Glos and small stickbaits.

The basic idea is that they keep your gear off bottom and keep you from snagging. When you fish with them, the idea is to keep the wire end just ticking bottom or just above it. Let out too much line, and the bouncer will lay down, and you'll get snagged if there is anything to snag on.

I like to fish a bouncer with a longish rod that has a soft tip--that way when a fish hits, I can see the bite, feed the fish a bit of line by letting the rod drift back with the fish and then set.

There's not much else to it.

I'll be glad to add my two cents, and I'm sure others will chime in.

[blufin loui]

Thanks kjackson for starting the information flow. This is exactly the type of info I'm looking to be posted. Good general tips on the usage of the Bottom Bouncer. Most fishermen will have streamlined the process to make the presentation work best for them, and those are the lil gems that I'd like to see. Just like you mentioned you like "a longish rod", well, The rod I was using was a 6' 6", and I can see where a longer rod will be benificial. So I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective. I can almost feel the bite already.
What about the length of the snell or leader. Any comments?

[lonnie197272]

Totally agree with Kjackson. The key is to just tap the bottom with the wire. The real key is to adjust the leader length behind the bouncer. When looking at the electronics and you notice that the walleye are belly to bottom shorten up your leader length and vice versa for ones that are suspended off the bottom. I generally start with a 4 to 5' leader and will go to as short as 2' and as long as 8'. Also one thing that can be helpful to add weight to the bouncer without changing the whole thing is get some bullet weights and slide them up to the lead on the bouncer and bend a kink in the wire. Works great for changing speeds in a hurry or sudden depth changes and saves time from having to change the whole setup. I normally go with a 3/4 oz for water deeper that 10' trolling at about .5 to 1 mph. Then I can add 1/4 oz weights to the bouncer and adjust accordingly. Thing to remember is to keep your line as much at a 45 degree angle in the water as possible. This helps with bottom contact without getting snagged to much and eases in hookups.

[Gringo Pescador]

My relatives in Nebraska use bottom bouncers exclusively for Walleye. They rig up wedding-ring, type setups (spinning blades & beads on the leader) on about a 4' leader with a nightcrawler dangling off the hook. Then jump in the pontoon boat, settle into the lawn chair and troll the weedlines. Not much to it really.

[Anglinarcher]

Sounds so easy, doesn't it?

I know people that think the same way about worm fishing for trout. "It ain't hard, you tie on a hook, cram on worm, attach a quarter pound of lead, dunk it in the water, and wait for the fish. If no fish bites, then it must be because they ain't no fish in the lake". LOL

OK, no offense intended to anyone, but I find that 10% of fishermen catch 90% of the fish, and 5% probably catch 95% of the fish. Knowledge and experience is everything.

I can only offer my experience, study, and testing of the last 30 years on the subject; I don't profess to be a professional Walleye Tournament fishermen, but some claim I could be. Sorry, not the life style I and my loving wife want.

So, while this is not a tutorial, I plan on suggesting things a little at a time.

The key to bottom bouncers is to get your offering in front of the fish, close to the bottom. Walleye do indeed feed on the bottom, but in reality, during most of the time when they are in a neutral mood, they prefer to sit on the bottom, looking up, ambushing prey as it moves by. The advantages of bottom bouncers, as used for trolling, is that you can cover a lot of water, keeping the bait in the few inches to a couple of feet above the bottom, in the critical zone. On some days, bottom bouncers are the only way to catch fish. On other days, they are best for locating schools, then you can change over to other methods.

Rods

So, what do you need, let's start off with rods. Almost any rod will work, but some make it a lot easier. I prefer a longer rod, with a fast to moderately fast action, in a medium line weight. If I were to look for my ideal rod, I would use a good graphite rod, 9 foot long, medium fast action (most of the bend is in the distant third of the rod), for a 10 to 15 pound line.

You want/need to be able to detect the bottom. If you cannot feel the bouncer ticking on the bottom, then you will find that you don't feel it until you are literally dragging the bouncer on the rocks. This can get you snagged a lot, and quite frankly, dragging that hard can scare spooky fish. You want the bouncer just ticking the tops of the rocks, every few feet. The medium fast rods tend to be more sensitive (this is a key requirement), and the 10 to 15 pound line rating puts you about where you want to be for lines (more on this later).

So, today's recommendations is to consider your rod. I actually find that I use my Steelhead rods a lot for the Walleye. I do a lot of Corkie and Yarn style of drift fishing for Steelhead, and the best Steelhead rods provide the sensitivity, length, and backbone you need for Walleye. I like the baitcaster rods myself, but spinning rods work as well.

I don't think they are made anymore, but Rapala made some Steelhead rods a few years ago, inexpensive, super sensitive, great length. I won't give mine up, but if you can find them, consider them. I also have a couple of GL2s that work fantastic.


Now, what does everyone else thing is best for rods?

[blufin loui]

Hey lonnie197272, I've heard lots of comments about "Just" tapping or ticking the bottom. I can see where just Dragging the bouncer across the rocks could scare the fish, but I wonder also if the "Light" contact needed to Just bounce along over the bottom structure may actually spur the intrest of some of the lethargic or non-active fish. I like the idea of having extra bullet weights or egg sinkers to slide on the bouncer to change weights as dictated by changing conditions.
Thanks for your input.

[blufin loui]

Appreciate the comment Mr Pescador, sounds like the Nebraska relatives have the system down for their fishing hole. It probably would help If I got a pontoon boat also, I've always wanted one of them BassBuggies from BassPro. LOL Anyway, We moved to WA from southern MO, and we thought catching walleyes was lazy mans fishing. Back there (in MO) we would just go down to the riverbank and cast jigs, worms, minnows, or rouges, and go home with a mess of fish. After living a few years and having time to look back over the experiences, I've come to the conclusion that I was taking alot for granted. Looking back I can see countless hours of fruitless casting in near freezing temps and loosing several bucks worth of gear before we got to the place where it all started coming together. You have to remember, this was way back before Al invented the internet, and walleye fishermen weren't known to hand out tips, so it was alot of trial and error (although still good fishing). So I guess I'm stiil trying to pay my dues with the Bottom Bouncers, and I AM really grateful for the internet, but moreso for fisherpersons like yourself who are willing to share some of your hard earned knowledge.

[blufin loui]

Sounds so easy, doesn't it?
My thoughts exactly, If it was THAT easy, everyone (including myself) would be doing it. LOL I had heard all the hype of how great the BBs were, and so I grabbed a few and went out to lessen the walleye poulation. Good thing I had a couple extra bucks in the wallet and a mini-mart on the way home or I'd went hungry for sure. LOL. Thanks for the info, and look forward to more.

[G-Man]

Bottom structure will dictate how to fish a bottom walkers/bouncing rig. I find that if I'm working a a very rocky area, especially areas with boulders, it is almost a necessity to have the rod in your hand to prevent snags and keep the gear at the proper depth. On a sandy bottom I leave the rod in the holder and keep an eye on the angle of the line to give me an idea if I need to adjust how much line I have out. With most predators a little disturbance on the bottom is a good thing and can be key in enticing a strike. It is common practice for folks who run downriggers to bounce or drag bottom every so often to try nail a fish. As with all fishing techniques, they don't all work 100% of the time and you'll need to adjust accordingly to what the fish are telling you. As for leader length, speed of troll, buoyancy of the lure and length of the bottom walker/bouncer you are using will dictate how much leader to use. In most cases you don't what your lure dragging the bottom so as you normally would, check your setup next to the boat at trolling speed and make adjustments accordingly. Stacked bead spinners and spinners tied with cheater floats are a staple, with the floats allowing for a longer leader and larger blade.

I've really taken to using braid for trolling as it transmits everything back to the rod tip and the smaller diameter helps get gear down with less weight. One really doesn't need a stout rod to fish for walleye as they normally fight about as much as a wet rag. I'm guessing that you probably have a decent rod and reel setup that will do the job. A light steelhead casting rod is more than adequate for most any situation and gear combo out there. Having a trailing hook or two is key for walleye as they really seem to prefer to nip at a presentation so don't be afraid to tie up your spinners with 4" or more distance between the hooks.

[blufin loui]

Thanks G-Man, I like the way you put it. "As with all fishing techniques, they don't all work 100% of the time and you'll need to adjust accordingly ". That's one of the great things about fishing, it's challenging and changes are needed to remain successful. Bouyancy is another area I have questions about. Just how bouyant do we want the business end of the harness. Does it need to be close to neutral or does it need to rise if movement is halted? Any comments?? Also on the trailer hook, does it hang naked, or is it stuck in the nightcrawler, or does it make a difference?

[G-Man]

I think tying up using a buoyant cheater allows one to use a larger blade and the idea is to be close to neutral on the positive side. I prefer to sink my trailer hook into the crawler as I think it helps prevent the worm from "balling up" and fouling up the rig.

[blufin loui]

I think tying up using a buoyant cheater allows one to use a larger blade and the idea is to be close to neutral on the positive side. I prefer to sink my trailer hook into the crawler as I think it helps prevent the worm from "balling up" and fouling up the rig.

That sounds reasonable, as far as blade size goes what would be some variances that would dictate using a larger vs smaller blade while fishing the upper RW for walleye?? any comments??

[G-Man]

That sounds reasonable, as far as blade size goes what would be some variances that would dictate using a larger vs smaller blade while fishing the upper RW for walleye?? any comments??

I can't really help you with RW as I haven't fished it for walleye. One thing I will say though is that when current is present the bottom draggers stay in the tackle box and the jigs, plugs and spoons come out.

[blufin loui]

Thanks G-man for your input. I feel I stand a better chance next time out. (If the fish will cooperate, of course). LOL

[Anglinarcher]

Good comments above, let's keep them coming.

I'd like to start by saying that the biggest reason I like long rods is control and sensitivity. A soft trout rod will not handle 3 or 4 ounces of weight and a slow action rod will not transmit that subtle tick tick, of the bottom, or some fish. Also, longer rods enable me to fish from the front of my boat, using my front trolling motor, without boat contact issues on tight turns (I often stick to structure like glue). Remember also, you want a sensitive rod, but not one so stiff that your fish cannot 'take' a little line when they are soft hitting.

Now, a great rod will compensate for a fair line, but not a poor line. So today, I want to talk about the next link in fishing bottom bouncers ------

Lines

We all know about line strength, visibility, etc., but in the case of Bottom Bouncers, it is about sensitivity. You can fish light bottom bouncers, less then a half ounce, on light line (6 #), but to do it properly, you need a sensitive line. Again, you want to tick the bottom, not drag the bottom, so if your line is like a rubber band, you will not know you are ticking or bumping the bottom.

So, notice my requirements for line rating on my fishing rod? That is because the heavier lines do not tend to stretch as much, so they transmit bottom or fish contact better. But, are all lines created equal? NO!

I tend to use braided line for this, almost all of the time. Power Pro is my favorite, but I have reels spooled up with Spider Wire, Fire Line, etc., and quite frankly, all of the braided or fused lines will work just fine. The extremely low stretch is the key. Also, a 15 or 20 pound line is the same or smaller diameter then the normal 6 or 8 pound mono. I have and still use Fluorocarbon on occasion, and some of the Co-polymers are pretty good, but remember, " great rod will compensate for a fair line, but not a poor line". If you don't have or want to spend the high dollars for a great rod, then spend a few extra dollars for a great line. A fair rod and a great line still make a good set-up.

Remember, visibility is not an issue because your leader will be a different material.

Next time, the meat of the issue, Bottom Bouncers. They are NOT all the same.

[kjackson]

Braid, or any of the GSP lines, is definitely the way to go. Besides sensitivity, they are extremely strong but not as abrasion resistant as comparable-strength mono...i.e. 30-lb braid will be less abrasion resistant than 30-lb mono as abrasion resistance is a function of diameter. And if you're using Fireline around the basalt rocks of the east side, you will find that it cuts like butter, no matter how much diameter it has.

However, with a properly fished bouncer, abrasion resistance is a non-issue. That's when sensitivity rules. In fact, with a GSP line, you can readily get by with an Ugly Stik Lite steelhead rod; there is no significant benefit to buying a high-priced stick.

Walleyes feed up as a rule; you only have to look at the position of their eyes to see that. (And yeah, at times they will eat crayfish, so they also feed down when it's appropriate.) So you want your offering to be above their level if you're fishing a spinner. Floating spinners first came into play before bouncers came into widespread use--that's when the weights most fishermen wre using were Lindy sinkers. Once bouncers became accepted, most Midwest walleye guys went back to straight snelled spinners. From my own observations, flotation in a spinner only comes into play when you're fishing fairly slow. If you're doing a relatively fast troll, then the spinner runs pretty much straight behind the bouncer. In theory, you only need to reel in a crank or two to get a similar effect at slower speeds.

However, one thing floats do, in my opinion, anyway, is provide a big spot of color for walleyes to target on. That's the real significance of the float. I know when I first started fishing floating spinners- 25+ years ago-- I threw one into the water to see how long it would float, and weighted down by the blade, hooks and mono, it sank immediately. Even under power, there isn't a lot of "rise" to the spinner when fished. If anything, what you get is a neutrally buoyant spinner instead of one that sinks slightly. Having said that, I've not seen spinners in action underwater, so I'm willing to be disproved.

As far as snell length goes, all my spinner fishing this summer was done with the new Lindy snelled spinners--the ones with the new blade and bead finishes and quick-change clevis. These are tied on six-foot snells (they work great with an 8 1/2-foot steelhead rod), and I never felt the need to change snell lengths. We fished on heavily pressured walleyes as well as some that would bite your fingers if your arm was long enough. None of us (and I'm including some topnotch walleye fishermen here) felt the need to change snell length. We did change colors with the time of day, though.

I really think that we give too much credit to walleyes at times; they are not very bright, and they're not very selective. I'm more of the opinion that when you find a walleye it will eat if it's in the mood and won't if it's not. There is not just one presentation or color or snell length that will trigger them; there are several if not many. Color and size of offering will come into play at times, so it's a good idea to have a range of colors and different size and style of blades.

As for hooking the trailing hook in the crawler--I believe it's necessary. When I mooch for salmon, I let the hook fly as I believe I hook more fish that way. But I want steel in the worm for walleyes. I've caught too many of the buggers that would seemingly nip their way up the crawler as they were caught only by the tail hook. One tip I got from a Wisconsin guide was to pinch off the tail of the crawler just a bit. He believed it would leave a better scent trail.

[gpc]

Yes bottom bouncers and bottom walkers are an absolute must for walleye. I like the bottom bouncers when trolling rocky or weedy waters. Over in the potholes when the water is high the walleye will hide in the willows. You can bounce the wire off the tops of the willows and not get snagged. And same with rocks, just less snags.

But if I am fishing a sandy bottom I prefer bottom walkers. If you don't know what they are, they are a more traditional style slip weight with a unique shape, meant for dragging the bottom. With these weights they kick up the sand and draw more attention. These weights really aren't practical trolling rocky areas and really hang up in the weeds.

I also have a bottom bouncer bag. I am pretty sure I got it from cabelas for under $20. It looks just like a flasher bag and is the best way I have found for storage.

2 quick tips for walleye. Just about every fish I troll for I put the rod in the rod holder. With walleye you will miss most of the fish unless you are holding onto your rod. Especially trolling worm harnesses. And check out the slow death hooks. They are made by Mustad and I fell in love with them last year.

I do almost all my walleye fishing in the Potholes. If you have any questions about that area shoot me a PM.

[kevinb]

Sorry,I don't have much to add right now. Just wanted to say thanks,this has to be one of the best/informative walleye threads in awhile and its certainly helping me.

gpc-I'll have to pick your brain one of these days about Potholes,I love that place but my trips are typically always the same. It takes me 2 days to locate fish then its time to go home:-({|=

[blufin loui]

THIS IS WHAT I WAS HOPING FOR.[/size] Thank you everyone for throwing in your comments and tips. When I posted the thread, I was hoping to get ideas from the various Walleye fishermen/women of the site, and it has started off really good. So keep em coming.
Kevinb, I'm with you as I'm reading stuff that will put me in a better position to catch walleye. Time and practice (along with more advice) will be the key.
gpc, Next year we plan to make an extra effort to get down to Potholes, and we'll be sure to take you up on the offer of Specific info for fishing that body of water.
kjackson and Anglinarcher, keep the great info coming. I look forward to hearing of different techniques from different folks, as there is no "One" way to accomplish the goal of being successful with the Bottom Bouncer.