Wild Fish Conservancy files suit over hatcheries

[BARCHASER10]

Our friends at the WFC have filed suit over Columbia River hatcheries. These guys are really active.

http://wildfishconservancy.org/about/pr ... hatcheries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bodofish]

Our friends at the WFC have filed suit over Columbia River hatcheries. These guys are really active.

http://wildfishconservancy.org/about/pr ... hatcheries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd personally like them to just go away or worse. They've single handedly ruined Salmon and Steelhead fishing in the Puget Sound basin. Now they're moving on to the Columbia. We can only hope the judges start to say no to them.

[AJ's Dad]

This came directly from the link provided:

“It’s ironic that NMFS is required by law to consult with themselves.


Why doesn't the NMFS just say, "Upon lengthy and deliberate consultation with ourselves, we decided it was AOK to fund these hatcheries" Problem solved.

HAHAHAHA! These guys probably get together over a few organic beers and argue about which tree to hug next!

[Bodofish]

NMFS is just a Fed agency...... Very slow to react.
WFC is just hating on anyone that doesn't hug the same side of the spawning bed they do. It's really too bad our State gave them all the money to start all this suing. They hooked a whole bunch of fools into buying their philosophy and got a ton of money saying they were going to fix the problem. After all the State did fund them to study the problem. So far the only problem they've fixed is having too many fish in our rivers. All of their rhetoric is totally counter to all the studies done by Or and Alaska. Yes the two States that have well managed hatchery programs and coincidentally lots of fish in their rivers.

Off Soap Box.

[AJFishdude]

Interesting and unfortunate all at once. My thoughts are as follows, and please note, they are not based upon facts or extensive research into the numbers behind the arguments, they are simply, as stated, my thoughts.

The shutting down of hatchery steelhead planting into many of the Puget Sound rivers, while unfortunate and in my opinion unwarranted, is nothing compared to what shutting down salmon production on the Columbia would be. While the PS steelhead run certainly supports(ed) a local economy within the PS region, I would daresay that the Columbia fishery supports a statewide economy (not hard to figure that one out, look at how much of the state is within reasonable driving distance of the river). Not only does the fishery support Washington's economy, it also supports Oregon's as well. While there are many die hard steelhead fishermen out there, I do not think for a moment that all of the revenue generated by the PS steelhead runs accounts for even a quarter of the economy driven by the Columbia salmon runs (and no, I do not have numbers, this is just dead reckoning). If the hatchery production on the Columbia were to shut down I feel that there would be very serious impacts to the fishing economy of the entire region, so much so that my gut tells me that it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for the WFC to actually get hatchery production on the river stopped. This is my hope at least.

And now, divulging from the post topic slightly, I will offer a few more opinions. I am all in favor of a strong wild steelhead run in every river that we can manage to bring one back to (and Coho, and Chinook, and Sockeye, and Bull Trout, etc.). After first hand witnessing the incredible fishing that is associated with strong wild runs of fish in the past salmon season, I would support just about any measure that guaranteed a return to robust wild runs for any species in any river (granted that you are still allowed to fish for them....that goes without saying). I would love it if hatcheries became a thing of the past, if combat fishing was no longer a term because you could fish almost anywhere and catch fish, if every river hosted year round salmon and steelhead opportunities. But wait a minute....lets step back to reality. The reality of the situation is that you have a strong statewide economy that supports fishing, and in many cases is held up by hatchery fish. Who is it that fishes for and subsequently cares about the fish in the river, either wild or hatchery, simply by virtue of the fact that they want to catch something? That's right, its the fishermen. Now, lets say you enact legislation that destroys the sport that the people who care about the fish love, what do you think happens then? Everyone just assumes that it is for a better cause and happily hangs up their rods for 10, 20 or 30 years? No, in my opinion, you end up alienating the very populace that you need on your side if you truly want to bring the wild runs back to where they should be. And here is another thought; no one else in this area cares about fish like fishermen do. All they know is that salmon taste good and that they come from somewhere around here...or Alaska. Yea, Alaska, that's where salmon come from.

The WFC isn't the only one to blame in this whole argument. You can truly point the finger at probably at least a half dozen places, spanning a time frame of decades. But that isn't the point either. The point is trying to solve this problem today, right now, together. We need good science. We need informed law makers. We need realistic conservationists. And above all, I feel that we need a passionate populace of fishermen who are committed to solving this problem in a way that maximizes the benefits while minimizing the impacts to the sport we know and love, and to a statewide economy. Shutting down hatcheries, in my opinion, does not accomplish any of those goals.

[cxlumpy]

well said aj.

[riverhunter]

Once again the wfc wants to stop hatchery production yet they promote hatchery production of non-native salmon and trout in chile

[Mike Carey]

Once again the wfc wants to stop hatchery production yet they promote hatchery production of non-native salmon and trout in chile

Can you provide recent examples of WFC doing this?

[riverhunter]

http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs14 ... 31695.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is the most recent one i have found but im sure if you look deeper you will find that they do trips pretty often to the chile patagonia. I believe that fishing might be good for chiles economy but i still find it hypocritical that they wfc claims to watning to protect wild fish

[Mike Carey]

01 is pretty recent.

I agree, it seems odd that an organization that wants fish hatcheries removed here endorses a fishery entirely created by hatcheries in another country.

[Bodofish]

Yep, the WFC are bad JUJU for sure. I'm pretty sure their end game is fly only for all our rivers as they are pretty much fly guides. The fact that they make their lively hood or part of it from guiding in the southern hemisphere, chasing non-native Trout and Salmon makes their whole existence smell a bit fishy And yes, I'll cop to the pun.

[MarkFromSea]

WFC is the devil! Their endgame is the closure of all hatcheries in WA. NOAA's NMFS and WDFW need to get their **** together and not make it so easy for these devils to sue them. It's frigin paperwork that isn't being completed by the managing entities that are there to do the frigin paperwork. This isn't supposed to be rocket science. Some of these requirements, legal, have been around for decades.

I'm beyond frustrated.

[dj2loud]

As Owen Hayes (outdoor GPS) has stated before, the WFC is a bunch of loony's and has too much time on their hands....
1 question I would ask of anyone who reads this is --- If the state is not planting smolt on the Nooksack river this year
( and they stated they didn't plant any last year 2014 and yet closed the season ) then why close the river down in December to collect eggs once again ? I am talking about the kendall creek hatchery and they supposedly collected what they needed) and re-opened the season on Dec 25th.......

Seems a bit odd????

[Ian Horning]

Damn! I'm late to this part of the forums.

Honestly, its sad how few fishermen in our state care about wild fish. I'm not saying I support WFC, cause I don't at all. What I'm saying is that in most cases our fishermen wouldn't care enough about wild fish to make it worth all of these extreme measures anyway. SO much of our fishing population is filled with poachers, rule breakers and such (example: Sky River King salmon poaching this summer)

Most of our puget sound rivers are dominated by such types that really don't give a rats ass about wild fish or not. The people that like hunting wild fish have their sanctuaries here too, but when you think of pristine steelhead rivers, BC comes to mind, as does the OP. Sad to say, but there's probably not that many true natives in our puget sound systems anymore anyways. And of course, protect the remaining native fish! But I don't think shutting down hatchery production is the right way to protect them.

And yay, the Sky, my home river, gets to keep production of hatchery fish, if I understand everything right. But imagine how many more people are going to be flocking to the river now. Even more of the 1oz pencil lead dragging flossers/snaggers will crowd our banks, and when nobody's looking, tail hook and keep wild fish. That's just so much of the crowd I've grown accustomed to seeing.

So now the Sky will be a circus, At least, hopefully, with less attention on other rivers, we'll get some damn enforcement on these rule-breakers.

At least they're leaving my beloved Bulldogs alone.

[fish vacuum]

As Owen Hayes (outdoor GPS) has stated before, the WFC is a bunch of loony's and has too much time on their hands....
1 question I would ask of anyone who reads this is --- If the state is not planting smolt on the Nooksack river this year
( and they stated they didn't plant any last year 2014 and yet closed the season ) then why close the river down in December to collect eggs once again ? I am talking about the kendall creek hatchery and they supposedly collected what they needed) and re-opened the season on Dec 25th.......

Seems a bit odd????

Most steelhead return as two-salts, but a portion of them (something like 20%) will stay an extra year in the salt. The three-salts from the last plant returned this winter and the hatcheries collected them in hopes they can resume planting.

[strider43]

Damn! I'm late to this part of the forums.

Honestly, its sad how few fishermen in our state care about wild fish. I'm not saying I support WFC, cause I don't at all. What I'm saying is that in most cases our fishermen wouldn't care enough about wild fish to make it worth all of these extreme measures anyway. SO much of our fishing population is filled with poachers, rule breakers and such (example: Sky River King salmon poaching this summer)

Most of our puget sound rivers are dominated by such types that really don't give a rats ass about wild fish or not. The people that like hunting wild fish have their sanctuaries here too, but when you think of pristine steelhead rivers, BC comes to mind, as does the OP. Sad to say, but there's probably not that many true natives in our puget sound systems anymore anyways. And of course, protect the remaining native fish! But I don't think shutting down hatchery production is the right way to protect them.

And yay, the Sky, my home river, gets to keep production of hatchery fish, if I understand everything right. But imagine how many more people are going to be flocking to the river now. Even more of the 1oz pencil lead dragging flossers/snaggers will crowd our banks, and when nobody's looking, tail hook and keep wild fish. That's just so much of the crowd I've grown accustomed to seeing.

So now the Sky will be a circus, At least, hopefully, with less attention on other rivers, we'll get some damn enforcement on these rule-breakers.

At least they're leaving my beloved Bulldogs alone.

The Sky river system has been abandonded by WDFW as far as enforcement of fishing regs go. I called in poachers last year to the "hotline" and got a recording to call the WSP. One time a got a guy on the line who tried to pass the buck as to whether it was a county park issue and that I should call them. I called fish and game, told them there was active poaching on the Skykomish River and they wanted me to call the county.....sorry to be off topic but I had to throw my 2 cents in.....

[Bay wolf]

The sad truth is, the lawsuits are just taking advantage of the governments inability to move forward in a timely manner on the recovery studies and subsequent plans. Sighting lack of data and limited manpower they excuse the excessively long process rather then attempt to mitigate a solution. Further lawsuits will only delay and curtail any action as it forces stop gap measures that will now have to be evaluated and studied. Think about this for a moment. Ending the Steelhead Hatchery programs are actually a WIN for WDFW! That's right! There are NO commercial non-tribal fishery for steelhead and as such, no blow back from the cowboys. Tribal fisheries will continue as normal as they are guaranteed under federal law, and the cost savings of NOT rearing steelhead are huge to WDFW. And they accomplish ALL of the savings by blaming the loss on someone else! The bottom line, (in my opinion) is our sport is going to hell in a hand basket. Between our agencies inability to managed, the co-managers chipping away at recreational fishing and groups like WFC taking advantage of the chaos and bureaucracy, sport fishing is doomed...well, unless you got the money to travel and spend big to fish, or you're really into planter trout and sand dabs!

Sorry if I've gone to the dark side, it's just hard to continue to be optimistic when you've been fishing in this state as long as I have and seen first hand how dismal things are getting...and trending to worse.

[Larry3215]

There is no question things are getting worse. Just ten years ago we could go out to Point Defiance and other spots in area 12 and be pretty confident of getting some decent salmon. Getting skunked was the exception to the rule. You could also count on several spots south of the Narrows to produce on a consistent basis. If you went north you were virtually guaranteed nice fish and fishing the straights or San Juan's was dream fishing.

Im not talking just salmon either. You used to be able to catch halibut, lings, rock fish etc all over the sound.

I dont think there is any one group that is 100% responsible, but our fisheries are being managed into extinction.

[steeleywhopper]

The sad truth is, the lawsuits are just taking advantage of the governments inability to move forward in a timely manner on the recovery studies and subsequent plans. Sighting lack of data and limited manpower they excuse the excessively long process rather then attempt to mitigate a solution. Further lawsuits will only delay and curtail any action as it forces stop gap measures that will now have to be evaluated and studied. Think about this for a moment. Ending the Steelhead Hatchery programs are actually a WIN for WDFW! That's right! There are NO commercial non-tribal fishery for steelhead and as such, no blow back from the cowboys. Tribal fisheries will continue as normal as they are guaranteed under federal law, and the cost savings of NOT rearing steelhead are huge to WDFW. And they accomplish ALL of the savings by blaming the loss on someone else! The bottom line, (in my opinion) is our sport is going to hell in a hand basket. Between our agencies inability to managed, the co-managers chipping away at recreational fishing and groups like WFC taking advantage of the chaos and bureaucracy, sport fishing is doomed...well, unless you got the money to travel and spend big to fish, or you're really into planter trout and sand dabs!

Sorry if I've gone to the dark side, it's just hard to continue to be optimistic when you've been fishing in this state as long as I have and seen first hand how dismal things are getting...and trending to worse.

My thoughts exactly, and if you don't believe it your head is in the sand. These hatchery fish are nothing but a pain in the WDFW's rear and the tribes will get thier steelhead whether wild or hatchery. We will sit around as Pugetropolis fisherman do and ask how did this happen while the WFC mows down every opportunity we have at tossing bait to a Salmonoid. If the WDFW really gave a care in the world about us North end Steelhead fisherman they would have fought tooth and nail for our fishery, they chose not to. Bust your Ascot and the flyrods boys its coming if we don't do something quick.

[BARCHASER10]

Op ed article today n the Seattle Times by some guy from the WFC. He calls Steelhead hatcheries part of the "entertainment industry". So I guess in their opinion when we fish for hatchery steelies we are doing reality TV.

http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/tim ... steelhead/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;