maybe a dumb question

bugmasta · Post by **bugmasta** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:14 pm

why does the puke close for the 2,3,9,10,11? are these special days that only the tribe gets to fish/net?

BentRod · Post by **BentRod** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:25 pm

Not a dumb question at all. From what I've read, they close it down to recreation fishing and only allow tribal netting. Apparently there have been too many altercations between the tribal fishermen and the bankies, so they got rid of one of the problems.

bugmasta · Post by **bugmasta** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:32 pm

thats kind of what i figured. so when are the "white man only" fishing days?

(lots of sarcasm)

Post by **Amx** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:45 pm

When there are no fish in the river.

BentRod · Post by **BentRod** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:59 pm

This may be the fastest devolving thread in history. Might as well lock it down now.

Let's try to keep the comments friendly please.

returnofthefish · Post by **returnofthefish** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:42 pm

During pink years, the fish are in so thick that you can still limit out while they net the fish downstream. A few kings and coho also get past the nets too. I didnt see any fish caught today by anybody on the upper river. There was altercations between sporties and tribal members a few years ago that made the news. Wdfw been closing the lower river for them since then.

dicinu · Post by **dicinu** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:20 pm

fish can still be caught even though they are netting below I pulled 3 fish yesterday one from limit as I had one adult and 2 jacks a guy limited out in less than 20 cast, I was standing right next to me. fish are in there just not pushing up in the big schools w/out the nets sat, I limited out in less than 2 hours of my 2 adult fish.

Sorry but the Indians were netting long before anyone else was here. I personally do not see anything wrong with it. it was and is their way of life. I personally again never understood the big complaint about it. Heck look at other country's that have not been taken over they net also. commercial fisherman they net also.

natetreat · Post by **natetreat** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:24 pm

They don't net for themselves, the gill net to sell it to safeway. It's not like they make their money off it either, they get that from casinos and geoducks. As long as they're netting hatchery fish, and they only net the same amount of fish as sporties take from the river, 50/50 than I'll be okay with honoring the treaty. But there is no 50/50 split, when they get every single fish that comes up the river on the Duwi, wild or not. And don't get me started on the native steelhead netting on the OP.

Post by **RiverChromeGS** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:20 pm

natetreat wrote:They don't net for themselves, the gill net to sell it to safeway. It's not like they make their money off it either, they get that from casinos and geoducks. As long as they're netting hatchery fish, and they only net the same amount of fish as sporties take from the river, 50/50 than I'll be okay with honoring the treaty. But there is no 50/50 split, when they get every single fish that comes up the river on the Duwi, wild or not. And don't get me started on the native steelhead netting on the OP.

OH GOD dont get me started you said it nate they dont net to feed the tribe or their families, they sell (or waste) it. Everyone is so worried about protecting wild stock now days, closing whole rivers to protect a few wild fish while the tribes have 50 nets across the mouth? MAKES me sick to see them have so little respect for fish and the environment and then waste half of it anyway, what a worthless waste of our dwindling fish resource, REAL good idea with the whole treaty and everything

dicinu · Post by **dicinu** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:11 pm

Metal wrote:I'm with ya on this one Nate. I've lived longer in this area than most of the tribal netters so how is it that it is "their river". My ancestors were hunters and gatherers too so where's my rights? Not that I want to gill net or over harvest Dunganess in the sound but hopefully you guts get the point.

I know nothing about your family I am gather by your reply it was directed to me. So i do have just one question at this time.

You and your family was were before the Indian's?

And to answer your question/comment about your rights those were taken once the Dept of F&G was introduced to be come a federal entity.

Don't get me wrong if they are wasting fish and crab that is want and waste that's not right but if it is to feed your family and provide for your community that's a different story. Do I agree with them netting not necessarily do I agree or disagree with that as long as it is for what it is intended for. wasting so the Quote White Man un-Quote will not get some fish I do see a problem with that I personally thing they should have to toss Nats back also. along with female Dungess...

I hunt I fish also My family has been doing so for ages.

and Please do not take my post as being Argumentative.

I never under stood the Hatred towards the Indians. so maybe this thread may show me something I do not know. even though I still will not hate them (I am not built to hate a race, only a Individual) but I will understand why some people feel the way they do and not just being a racist as they have a valid reason behind it.

Post by **RiverChromeGS** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:30 pm

^^the reason we have negative thoughts towards the tribes and their fishing around here is because, and i know a lot of us have seen this first hand, many of them have no respect for the environment or fish, could care less if their netting destroyed an entire run, wild or not, waste fish (ive seen them dumping chrome fish because all the wanted was the eggs) littering, I COULD go on and on of what ive seen them do, back in the day the tribes use to fish to feed their tribes and families, now they dont even eat fish, they take 3/4 of an entire run, sell it all to safeway, go load up on mcdonalds hamburgers and alcohol and drugs. THIS is not a judgement, ive been on the reservation, ive seen first hand how messed up it is out there, not to say its ONLY the tribes you know lots of people are like this, but watching an entire run get destroyed because of tribal netting, JUST FOR THE EGGS or selling it for minimal price to a grocery store...? dont they get enough free S**T from the government already... and dont you think a respectable group of people would realize what their doing and STOP? I have many examples of BAD encounters with tribes on the river, and i cannot think of one good one, at all. This is where my thoughts on them come from... first hand encounters of waste and disrespect to the environment, over and over. FIshing is too important in my life to be OK with watching this happen

If you disagree with me, just ask me to go over the things ive seen these last few years.

dicinu · Post by **dicinu** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:27 pm

Metal wrote:Dicinu my post wasn't directed at you at all. The tribes just do things that get on my nerves. I just can't believe that the muckleshoot hatchery on the white river produce decrnt amounts of both spring chinook and winter steelhead in the months of march-may. Just a coincidence that the river is closed when the winter runs return I guess. I wonder exactly what or who funds this operation?

Metal: Honestly I do not pay attention to the tribes and netting times. As for the reason I decided to be active on this topic. This is a Learning experience so to say about the logic and reason behind it. I just tend to not let a lot of things bother me. I like fishing I do not like wanting to fight or argue over a fish. I have only lived in this state for 2 and a half years. I fish more here than I did when I lived in Las Vegas I will fish in the combat zone or out by myself as Long as I am fishing I am happy but it kills me to listen to people complain about this or that without knowing the reason behind it.

I will agree with Nate's statement 50/50 it should be meet if that's what is agreed upon!

Oh I know who funds it we do.

Fishnfreak: Most of the people that go fish are pigs it is the same for the shooting community and sorry if it is in the regs not to defecate while on the river something is not right with that I doubt the Indian's are to blame for that one. so being a litter bug is not an argument IMO.

But wasting fish for the egg's well that I see as a problem, it is also a Problem with us. As it is stated in the regs. as far as I know Indian's do not play by the same rules we have to play. the Skok they get to snag fish along with net. I have seen it on Minter and also the Puyallup. most of the Asinine rules are due to us meaning Non law rule abiding fisher folks.

I go shooting a lot and places (state & national forest pit) are getting closed down do to folks Littering. it sucks it is kind of simple if you ask me pick up what you brought in. I pick up other peoples stuff in my general area also. man the Puyallup looks like a dump cans bottles wrappers all over the place so all in all there are pigs on both sides of the fence.

natetreat · Post by **natetreat** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:48 pm

I don't have a problem with a commercial harvest. I don't have a problem with treaty rights, it's about the way they go about it. Gill netting is just dumb, and if they put a sticker on fish that said gill netted, nobody would buy it. And yea, the white man came over and conquered, displaced them off their land and gave new weird diseases that new world immune systems couldn't handle. But those same white people pioneered democracy, engineered freedom, and made way for a new understanding of civilization, allowing the entire world to live a better life. I will never give into the need to look at history and feel the need to make accommodations because of something my ancestors did to somebody's ancestors. My Granddad married native, and he was whiter than white. My great great grandad was chief Seattle. We founded Seattle and were subsequently kicked from the Black River, to Arlington to Hood Canal by racist white folk. If we went around feeling guilty about all the war and atrocity committed by those that came before us, we couldn't have an honest conversation with anyone. The Turks killed a bunch of folks, the Mongols took over Europe, Greece invented democracy and then the Romans took over, Catholics, Muslims, Jews started killing each other. Should we let the warriors of our Midwestern states legally practice their religion by giving them quota on the amount of scalps that they are allowed to harvest? Should we let them hunt with forest fires, slaughter entire massive herds of elks and buffalo? What about the African Americans in the US descended from slaves. Should we buy them back their land in Africa, cut their decedents a monthly welfare check and build them a reservation? When does history become history. Coming at the netting topic from that point of view just turns it into an us versus them pity party. They are us, and we can make a change for the better as soon as someone gets their head outta the sand and admit that the Boldt decision had a huge impact on the way our fisheries have evolved, and do something to get those nets turned into selective fish traps.

So what if my folks worshiped salmon and nature. I do the same thing in my own way. But my way doesn't decimate wild runs of fish, indiscriminately killing native steel head and hatchery fish alike. I don't live on the dole of the US while enjoying the perks of running my own sovereign nation. Let's let the natives have their fish and make money off of it too, but let's not pretend that they respect us and the fish. We honor the treaty, but we can do that without gill nets. Reparations have been given, it's time to step up and put our rivers back to the way they could be when everyone cares about putting fish in the river, and keeping them coming generation after generation.

dicinu · Post by **dicinu** » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:36 pm

Well Nate I hear what your saying but we are still doing what we always have done take over country's and land and resources. Middle East ring a bell or 2. I am all for how we became who we became I am not for how we did it for some parts of it. But hey it is what it is. Hitler slaughtered Millions of Jews My people Americans both white and Black owned Slaves again my people. do I feel bad for the Indian's No they are grown people that choose to Live in there ways and not evolve with the rest of the country. Do I personally care about gill netting No. I honestly would not have all the fun fishing as I do with a net in the water. But that's me and my opinion. the Indian's did evolve to a point by building casinos and water parks they do create jobs for US. also they do have hatchery's they do a small part does it compare to what WE/US do I am here to find out. America was founded on who has the bigger stick it is and will always be that way.
and sorry I am all over the place with my post I am tired lol

Post by **Gringo Pescador** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:36 am

Not ALL Native Americans do what you all are whining about, just like not ALL the non-natives on the river are fishing illegally. There are bad apples in every bunch. To condemn the masses for the acts of the few is stupid and childish.

Post by **Gringo Pescador** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:21 pm

Fish-Freak23 wrote:
Gringo Pescador wrote:Not ALL Native Americans do what you all are whining about, just like not ALL the non-natives on the river are fishing illegally. There are bad apples in every bunch. To condemn the masses for the acts of the few is stupid and childish.

Unfortunately, the few that do bad things condemn the rest of the group. Please don't use circular references

And like I said, condeming the group because of the actions of a few is stupid and childish.

dicinu · Post by **dicinu** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:12 pm

Gringo Pescador wrote:Not ALL Native Americans do what you all are whining about, just like not ALL the non-natives on the river are fishing illegally. There are bad apples in every bunch. To condemn the masses for the acts of the few is stupid and childish.

You nailed it right on the head a few people not everyone on both sides are guilty of stupidity. I fished with an indian the other day he was fishing just like me drifting through the puke...

natetreat · Post by **natetreat** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:22 pm

dicinu wrote:Well Nate I hear what your saying but we are still doing what we always have done take over country's and land and resources. Middle East ring a bell or 2. I am all for how we became who we became I am not for how we did it for some parts of it. But hey it is what it is. Hitler slaughtered Millions of Jews My people Americans both white and Black owned Slaves again my people. do I feel bad for the Indian's No they are grown people that choose to Live in there ways and not evolve with the rest of the country. Do I personally care about gill netting No. I honestly would not have all the fun fishing as I do with a net in the water. But that's me and my opinion. the Indian's did evolve to a point by building casinos and water parks they do create jobs for US. also they do have hatchery's they do a small part does it compare to what WE/US do I am here to find out. America was founded on who has the bigger stick it is and will always be that way.
and sorry I am all over the place with my post I am tired lol

America was founded on the principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Not on who has the bigger stick. I couldn't disagree with you more. I think we should intervene more in the affairs of other countries, we as a developed nation with the means to stop 3rd world countries from mass murdering their own citizens, supporting terrorists or oppressing and invading other nations we should do so, regardless of whether we have a vested economic interest in the countries exports or not. Darfur, South Africa apartheid, child soldiers and civil war in the Congo, sex trafficking in the iron curtain and any number of atrocities in Asia and the middle east. We had the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan because they are key areas in the middle east that affect the balance of power and control the resources that drive the global economy. They are still identifying and sending remains home to their families from the mass graves in Iraq. That happened 10 years ago. We have a moral obligation to protect those who can't protect themselves. But that's my opinion, we can be isolationist and let the rest of the world have at each other and murder each other because we respect their national autonomy.

But this isn't an international issue, these fish runs happen right at home. Fishing rights aside, there won't be any fish to net if we don't get control of our fisheries. It makes me sad and dissappointed to watch fish rot in nets in 70 degree water. Piles of wasted chum on the Green because they only want the eggs. The indians lying to WDFW and over harvesting Dungeness in the sound. Pulling up on private beaches in the sound and dragging away oysters that homeowners farm on their own tideland. Stringing nets across the Hoh and taking native steelhead. The black market for geoducks shipping them off to Asia. We have an underfunded WDFW department bending over backwards to re-establish the historical numbers of fish that has its hands tied because of federal regulations and treaty obligations. Look at the numbers, and you'll see ever since we started gill netting, they've dropped. We could have a world class fishery drawing folks from all over the country, we would be a better destination than Alaska if we could even get our numbers to what they were 50 years ago. Not going to happen with natives killing everything that enters the river.

Fishininja · Post by **Fishininja** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:06 pm

I agree that if we don't take action there will be nothing left in the rivers for future generations regardless of heritage. ignorance and greed rule the land and we need to speak out. in Oregon the fishing organizations are finally united in the fight to remove the gillnets from the rivers.

We could learn a thing or two from our neighbors to the south.

dicinu · Post by **dicinu** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:13 pm

Nate I Will leave the International comments off as the thread will be side tracked more than it already is...
As I also strongly disagree with you. but hey that's what makes us a great country.

runs 50 years ago can you name one thing that is the same and has not changed in one way or another that lasted 50 years. Link below shows the Population for only 30 years that means more animals taken fish shell fish deer elk bear ect. you say let the Indian's weave the nets okay same would go for us. What your saying they cannot evolve but we can? Do I agree with harvesting fish for eggs only again I do not. But how come F&G does not do anything about it? do they not have rules?

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/planning/wtp/da ... Growth.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Northwest Fishing Reports

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