Baker Lake Sockeye

[TomD]

Learned about the outlook for this year's fishery at the Forecast meeting... I'll share that below then also have a couple of questions for everybody...


Last year's run was very good and came in pretty close to the forecast of about 35K fish. The river fishery was very successful according to the Department.


This year the forecast is lower, at around 21000 fish, so that leaves 7500 for the spawning/hatchery goal, and approx 7000 fish each for the Tribal and Non-Tribal sides.


SO...


QUESTION Set 1 - Did you fish the river? Were you successful? Did you enjoy the experience? Would you want a river fishery again this year?


Question Set 2 - Did you fish the lake last year? Were you successful? How about compared to the previous year? Would you want to fish in the lake again?


There is some anecdotal evidence that there were not as many "biters" in the lake last year, which could be explained by the river fishery maybe taking the biters before they got to the lake. I'm going to talk to the Bio for Baker Lake, Brett (very helpful guy btw), and see if he has catch per angler numbers for the various years in the lake to see if it is true.


There is also anecdotal evidence that the fishing in the lake doesn't get good until you get around 4000 fish in the lake.


My reason for starting this discussion is to get input from my fellow anglers on how to structure the Rec fishery this year. We have the choice to go all river, all lake, or a combo of the two... everybody gets less fish this year with the lower forecast, so just trying to get us lined up for a successful fishery.


Comments welcome!


Thanks!


Tom Drews

Salmon Sport Fishing Advisor

[Mike Carey]

Tom, thanks for getting our input. I fished lake only last year and did not fish river at all. My experience was the fishery was tougher but still many fish to be had, just needed to put in the time. I think all river would be highly unfair to the majority of anglers that don't have boats able to fish the river.

[Racer]

I spent 5 days at Baker last year and the fishing was alittle tougher than the year before. The fish were there, just not biting as aggressive as before. I did not have any time to do the river and it's looking like I may not this year either. I do have my site reserved for another week at the lake though.

[natetreat]

I think the lake it where it's at. I love the lake fishery, it's one of the things that I look forward to in the summer. The river is not nearly as fun, or productive. If given the choice I'd go lake all the way. Fishing in the lake last year was very good for me. They weren't in the usual spots, but once we found them and dialed it in we hit lots of fish.

[bassplayer17]

I fished just the lake and agree with Nate the lake is where its at. Started with a count of 1500 with good results limits by 8:00 then they started to dump a lot of water lake was very high early on and the fishing got tough. Still managed limits some days took till 10. Last year was a little better than the year before but alot more crouded than 2 years ago. I will fish it again this year for sure.

[Mike Carey]

... I will fish it again this year for sure.

If they let us. Not being alarmist, but I can't imagine the option of river only. That would remove the opportunity to fish for so many people.

[Dan Boone]

I only fished the river last year, and only once. Would have fished the lake, but for a lack of a boat.

[bassplayer17]

... I will fish it again this year for sure.

If they let us. Not being alarmist, but I can't imagine the option of river only. That would remove the opportunity to fish for so many people.

I just can't imagine not fishing the lake it is such a cash cow....camp fee launch fee.speed trap for the county

[TomD]

... I will fish it again this year for sure.

If they let us. Not being alarmist, but I can't imagine the option of river only. That would remove the opportunity to fish for so many people.

I just can't imagine not fishing the lake it is such a cash cow....camp fee launch fee.speed trap for the county

I don't think there is leaning one way or the other. There are some folks who think that if you don't put "enough" fish into the lake, the fishing isn't good in the lake... I think I am hearing from folks here that isn't so much the case.

The benefit of the river fishery is that shore-based anglers can participate and were mostly pretty successful

If we do both, it would end up being about 3500 fish for the river fishery and then only 3500 total into the lake...

Or we could choose to put all 7000 into the lake...

Those will be the decisions we need to make... I'll want to have a pretty firm proposal to take into the meeting on the 15th.

[beachbum97]

I caught 2 in the river last year and 1 at the lake. I have no prior experience as of last season but what I can tell you that fishing off of a boat is a lot better. You cover more ground, get more fish, and most importantly LESS MOSQUITOS! I really hated plunking for them off of a river, Mosquitos are everywhere in July too. Plus the fishing is very inconsistent. Don't count on a hightide to bring in the fish, they come in as small pods every now and then and maybe one or two rods will get hit. It's very hit and miss the river is usually very high, so good like finding a spot unless you're there befor everyone else.

[Steelheadin360]

I would much rather fish the lake for them. Did a little of both and the lake is way easier to get fish at.

[G-Man]

Given a choice I'd opt for the lake fishery. It makes it more family friendly as I know for sure that my wife and son won't be found on the river with me casting for them.

[Mike Carey]

Given a choice I'd opt for the lake fishery. It makes it more family friendly as I know for sure that my wife and son won't be found on the river with me casting for them.

Absolutely a much better experience for most people IMO. We slept in our boat and fished in the morning, took a siesta and fished in the evening. What a wonderful experience. I saw lot's of families with kids out on the lake.
Sure, the river allows people without a boat to have a shot, but it also limits the number of anglers because as previously mentioned there is only so much bank space.

[bassplayer17]

Plus its the most beautiful place to fish shot some great pictures of baker...With it being a humpy year that will take alot of pressure off the projected 7000 return..

[CaptainJack]

I have to agree with everyone else, much rather fish the lake. My Dad and I have fished up at Baker for 5-8 days each of the last three years and have been more successful each time, definitely the most looked forward to fishing of the year. I don't know about less biters, but we had our best success this year compared to the previous two, including a few 7-8 pound fish.

About the not good fishing until 4000 fish thing: I'm sure its true that the more fish there are the better the chance of success, but there are also other reasons that the fishing "improved" by the time there were 4000 fish in the lake. One, there aren't as many anglers in the early part of the season and two, it can take a while to dial the fishery in e.g. technique, location, etc. And, as bassplayer17 alluded to, I've seen and heard good reports for fishing with as little as 1000 fish or even less.

I have nothing against river fishing and have done little of it, never for sockeye, but even if the whole sockeye allotment goes to the lake, there are still over a million pinks running and then coho later, so a few thousand sockeye aren't going to be missed, just like the countless years before the first opening in a while last year.

So I say send them up to the lake because if Baker doesn't have enough sockeye there is no salmon fishing while in the river there are plenty of other fish. Baker has become a great salmon destination and it would be a shame to limit or eliminate such an awesome, scenic fishery.

And I will second Mike in saying thanks for coming here to get some input, its always good to get your opinion heard.

[TroutSnipr]

When I went last year I'd say the biggest problem I saw on the lake was people that don't know how to fish here. I saw a ton of people out running their king/silver gear which is way too stout for Baker sockeye. So many fish got off once those huge dodgers cleared the water and ripped the hook right out of the fish. We actually had to dodge some dodgers that came flying our way when the fish came off! We were running our Koke gear and lost maybe 15% of our hookups compared to maybe 50% lost in the boats around us. Some of those fish that were abused by heavy gear I'm sure didn't make it, or were at least a lot less likely to take another run at someone's bait.

[rseas]

Great thread Tom and I'm sorry that it took me so long to reply. I have fished both fisheries and if we were going to have to give up either the river or lake my vote would be the river. The 1012 river fishery was a blast and our gang caught a lot of fish but my concern is with regards to the limit/regulations enforcement effort. During the lake fishery the sheriff and WDFW are very active in assuring that the sport fishing rules and boating safety regulations are followed. The river fishery is another story, although there are a limited number of areas where the average person or family can participate in the river fishery it seems that there is a reduced enforcement effort for the river fishery. While participating in the river fishery I witnessed numerous major gear, limit or catch recording violations. It would be my guess that the actual encounters or catch numbers are much higher than the catch records or biologist creel surveys indicate.

Further and as a vote for the lake fishery; at some level by the time the lake fishery is open the fish are considered surplus and take by sportsman will not impact the Baker Lake sockeye recovery efforts. That is not the case with the river fishery, during the river fishery it is very difficult to adjust the impact the fishery has on the escapement requirements. Because the sockeye run has such a compact peak run profile, if the preseason run forecast significantly exceeds the actual numbers of fish returning to the system by the time the return anomaly is detected and documented it is too late.

[gfakkema]

...

[TomD]

Thanks Everybody for the input!

I think I have heard overwhelming support for the lake fishery and a desire for river as well, though lesser in support.

I talked with the Department Bio on this and we have a thought I would like to float, and will probably officially propose at NOF1 this Friday in Olympia...

I propose that the first priority would be a lake fishery, and that a river fishery would be considered or added if the forecast available for non-Treaty fisheries was above X fish.

I would propose that if the forecast recreational harvest was over 10,000 fish, we would add a river fishery. So since escapement is 7500 and harvest is split 50/50 with the Tribes, that would be a total forecast of over 27,500 before we would open the river.

Thoughts and/or comments, please?

Tom

[G-Man]

Sounds like a fair compromise, I just hope we have a banner return year.