Keeping Big Bass

[ckim85]

"I stand corrected the small mouth was brough over in the early 1800s they are native to the upper Mississippi and the Large mouth is Native to the Southeast."

so...it says nothing about being native to state of WA...?

again, I'm not one to be selective about what species belong where. I enjoy catching bass and salmon both. But it is something to be said when our native species populations are slowly declining due to many introduced species.

that is to say it is not JUST the invasive species that are effecting it. There are millions of factors, main factor being human population and growth, but better control of invasive species is definitely very important in our waters and one that has been poorly managed previously. After all, how do you manage a bunch of bucket biologists who insist on dumping bass into their local waters?

[G-Man]

You harvest what you can legally and hope it helps the native fish of this State. I've said it before and I'll say it again, keep as many smallies as you are legally allowed if you are so inclined. They are better suited to our waters and will overrun a lake in a relatively short amount of time. There is a reason the limit was upped to 10 fish a couple of years ago. Keeping what you catch is not a bad thing as long as it falls within the letter of the law. And IMO smallies fry up just as nice as perch.

[Trent Hale]

Dose any one know why they brought SMB and LMB to Wa ?

[hookorcrook]

I'm glad fishinislife brought this up before another year of angry "you shouldn't keep bass" posts started showing up. Maybe we can make this a posty?

I was actually really surprised to read the size limits and such because I do not keep bass. I didn't know you keep them under 12". I thought it was a typo at first I always catch and release. But I have no problem with people keeping what the regs allow.

When I first started bass fishing a million years ago in California, I kept them, not always, but occasionally. Then I was educated and didn't keep any for a number of years. Then I decided to keep one (about 2-3 lbs) to take home to my grandma for dinner. She always liked when I brought halibut, yellowtail, etc, home. Well I'm carrying this bass, and some guy sneers at me pretty meanly, "You should put that back. You shouldn't keep that."

He might have had his opinion (which he should have kept to himself) and thought he knew what was what, but I released dozens of bass back into that lake, a couple twice that size. So I guess what I'm trying to say is you never know the story or reason people do things. He probably thought I was destroying the lake.

Anyway, in no way am I not advocating C&R. My opinion is let them go. But I think if you are abiding by the law, then you shouldn't be hassled. Especially when there are so many poachers out there disobeying.

[Amx]

Dose any one know why they brought SMB and LMB to Wa ?

It's my understanding the railroad workers brought the first bass to the west coast so they could eat the fish and let them loose in the lakes so they could fish for the fish.

[ckim85]

Dose any one know why they brought SMB and LMB to Wa ?

i'm guessing it was for recreational purposes back in the days. nowadays its far gone beyond managable in most waters. I think I read about the downfall of Lake WA sockeye fishery due to heavy industrialization and i've also heard people holding the SMB responsibly for the decline of the sockeye fishery.

in the future i hope WDFW does a better job of managing warm water fisheries by keeping them seperate but having seen lots of SMB's being caught out Columbia, it does make you wonder when that will spread beyond unmanagable reach. Rivers like Yakima which is arguably one of the last trout fisheries in WA (dedicated blue ribbon trout fishery) are already seeing SMB's in lower river regions and the thought is frightening at how fast they can take over.

Hopefully better awareness to the public will keep the bucket biologist from dumping species in every body of water they find.

[smoke14]

where did you see that bass are native to WA. absolutely in no way is any species of bass native to WA. they are extremely invasive. Take a look at many small lakes that were previously occupied by westslope cutthroat, now taken over by mass numbers of largemouth bass. Fact of the matter is, bass in general are very aggressive and compete directly with many native species in our local waters. Bass are very resilient while our native trout species are not. It's pretty commonly known of our native cutthroat trouts in lakes declining drastically when bass are introduced.

here is a direct report from National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Northwest Fisheries Science Center regarding the effects of nonindigenous species in WA including largemouth and smallmouth bass in WA: http://blog.oregonlive.com/environment_ ... cies_1.pdf

and another report on LMB effect on pacific salmon in WA: http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/warmwater/libra ... impact.htm

EDIT: wait a minute...where does WDFW say bass is NOT a non-native?
Clearly states both LMB and SMB are introduced: http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/prospects/wa_sp ... tm#sm_bass

If you read the WA fish regulations it has a section on non-native invasive species and the LMB and SMB are NOT on that list that is what I looked up early. As for native trout they are doing fine and the same with salmon. The real threat to native salmon are the commercial fishing that takes place in the ocean. Its not regulated very well.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/ans/identify/se ... earch=Fish

this is the link from the same site you keep refrencing its the one I used.

[spindog]

I'm glad fishinislife brought this up before another year of angry "you shouldn't keep bass" posts started showing up. Maybe we can make this a posty?

I was actually really surprised to read the size limits and such because I do not keep bass. I didn't know you keep them under 12". I thought it was a typo at first I always catch and release. But I have no problem with people keeping what the regs allow.

When I first started bass fishing a million years ago in California, I kept them, not always, but occasionally. Then I was educated and didn't keep any for a number of years. Then I decided to keep one (about 2-3 lbs) to take home to my grandma for dinner. She always liked when I brought halibut, yellowtail, etc, home. Well I'm carrying this bass, and some guy sneers at me pretty meanly, "You should put that back. You shouldn't keep that."

He might have had his opinion (which he should have kept to himself) and thought he knew what was what, but I released dozens of bass back into that lake, a couple twice that size. So I guess what I'm trying to say is you never know the story or reason people do things. He probably thought I was destroying the lake.

Anyway, in no way am I not advocating C&R. My opinion is let them go. But I think if you are abiding by the law, then you shouldn't be hassled. Especially when there are so many poachers out there disobeying.

Nice! Good input, thanks for staying on topic, I'd have to say we were getting WAY off topic, thanks for a redirection.

[ckim85]

where did you see that bass are native to WA. absolutely in no way is any species of bass native to WA. they are extremely invasive. Take a look at many small lakes that were previously occupied by westslope cutthroat, now taken over by mass numbers of largemouth bass. Fact of the matter is, bass in general are very aggressive and compete directly with many native species in our local waters. Bass are very resilient while our native trout species are not. It's pretty commonly known of our native cutthroat trouts in lakes declining drastically when bass are introduced.

here is a direct report from National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Northwest Fisheries Science Center regarding the effects of nonindigenous species in WA including largemouth and smallmouth bass in WA: http://blog.oregonlive.com/environment_ ... cies_1.pdf

and another report on LMB effect on pacific salmon in WA: http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/warmwater/libra ... impact.htm

EDIT: wait a minute...where does WDFW say bass is NOT a non-native?
Clearly states both LMB and SMB are introduced: http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/prospects/wa_sp ... tm#sm_bass

If you read the WA fish regulations it has a section on non-native invasive species and the LMB and SMB are NOT on that list that is what I looked up early. As for native trout they are doing fine and the same with salmon. The real threat to native salmon are the commercial fishing that takes place in the ocean. Its not regulated very well.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/ans/identify/se ... earch=Fish

this is the link from the same site you keep refrencing its the one I used.

The page you are looking at nuisance invasive species not yet fully introduced to WA. Plus, WDFW has labeled bass as a game fish now, which is why they are not considered "invasive" as management is far beyond WDFW's control. That list is missing MANY species in WA that are non-native and invasive, many of them are now labeled game fish or food fish. I'm guessing you didnt care to look at the link I sent which clearly shows that LMB and SMB are introduced.

Trout and salmon are doing fine? You must be delusional. You are very ill informed or not informed at all about the conditions of our trout fisheries and salmon. Record high fish returns don't mean anything when 90% of that are hatchery fish that directly compete with pure native steelhead and salmon. Jus tlook at the declining numbers of native steelhead and salmon in our waters. One has to wonder why are they are listed under ESA. Not to mention the GIGANTIC decline in numbers of native cutthroat trout in our lakes? Perhaps the fact that the westslope cutthroat, one of WA's main native trouts are now under ESA since 1997 due to declining populations. Attributed to many competitive invasive species and industralization, and many other factors. The concerns of trout, native steelhead and salmon in WA are tremendous. I'm not talking about planted rainbow trout.

Yes commercial and tribal netting is a big factor, one i can go on forever about, but we'll save that for another day. Pumping up steelhead hatchery program is yet another problem, once again one for another day. But invasive nonnative species are one major factor you shouldn't overlook and evidently hasn't been overlooked by the number of studies that have been done. Did you even look at the link I posted earlier? At the end of the day, invasive aggressive non native species like LMB and SMB are factor to consider in our declining native population.

if you're doubting this, this isn't unique to WA. consider the effects of SMB's on atlantic salmon in the NE and Europe. Here's a quick link for reference: http://www.wle.umaine.edu/faculty/coghl ... oposal.pdf

also the effects of bass on trout in our national parks such as Yosemite: http://www.nps.gov/yose/naturescience/fish.htm


anyway, let's keep this thread on topic. PM me for further discussion on this matter.

[marktfd88]

There actually is a few studies that have been done on Columbia River bass and predation of salmon / steelhead smolt.
Currently I have been working with a UW grad student who is looking into the relationship between natural predators (ie pikeminjnows ) and invasive species ( ie smallmouth bass) on salmon. To see if the natural predator or the invasive has more impact. Lots of variables will be tossed into the mix on this one to see if smallies will go out of there way to eat salmon smolt, or is it an opportunity presents itself feeding response.

Mark

just to play devil's advocate... for the record I am all for C&R bass. I enjoy fishing for them and realize how limited we are with trophy bass here in WA.

But certain bodies of water, such as many tributaries of Columbia have often been aggressively taken over by bass, which has negatively effected our native steelhead numbers. I don't have scientific proof of this, but it is all speculation amongst those hardcore steelheaders.

I've often read in many discussions where steelheaders and trouters often will toss a trophy bass into a bush in order to help the numbers of fish such as steelhead. I'm a firm believer that one fish tossed onto the bank won't be beneficial, but I do believe in preserving our native fish species.

What are people's take on this? Kill/keep the trophy bass in fragile waters that have effected our last remaining native species waters?

[Dustin07]

part of me would agree with the post about the increase in how many bass you can take. 10 is a lot if you compare it to some other fish that have only 1, 2, 5, or whatever. So that would make me think that the state would be purposely trying to thin them a bit.

But then I remember that the state really favors trout over bass anyways. A lot of lakes you visit that get stocked you will find park rangers, or resort owners who are trying to destroy the bass populations in their lakes because they are eating the trout.. the trout industry appears to be the more favored industry. may be because longer season, easier to catch, larger market of customers? Lake Coconully has given me my personal best SMB, and about 200 total bass... I've been told they've considered killing it off to get rid of hte bass and start over with trout! bummer!

Then I think about ecosystems. I thought I remembered reading about how big bass need big food. so if you begin to cull out a medium sized food source, the big bass won't have the food they need to get really big. (I'll see if I can find the article).



Also, big stinky old bass smell yucky. How many guys who go bass fishing every weekend like the guys on this forum, actually keep every bass they keep? I"m thinking the guys who keep bass usually only fish once a year anyways? So are they really creating a problem?

[racfish]

If I'm hungry for Bass I keep Them .If I'm not I release them.That was the way I used to be.Now since being more weight conscious I release all bass and panfish seeing that frying them is the best way to eat them and I cant afford fried foods anymore.Im with Fishinislife where as long as your not breaking laws then do what you will.Some keep some release. There are far too many other problems in the world then worry who keeps what. The beauty of living in America is freedom of choice.Lets make the most of our freedom while we got it.

[panfisher]

i would think that just the cost of mounting a really big trophy bass would keep many from keeping to mount as a (spur of the moment decision) most do not know what the cost is for a quality mount may be. as you get what you pay for (usually) i looked into this several years ago and found can be 25-$30.00 an inch. so you can figure it may be .6-$800.00.
any thoughts on this?

[panfisher]

[Nik]

The native non-native argument is moot because virtually nothing you can catch out of a land-locked lake in the state of Washington is native, including the trout. Everything was stocked at one time or another. We have our river run trout and salmon and some other species that are considered trash fish. Bass have been here longer than any of us have been alive, not to mention they are able to subsist in our lakes far better that trout which have to be stocked yearly. Bottom line is they are as native or more native than any other lake game fish in Washington.

[Trent Hale]

It's funny, Most southern's don't eat salmon or trout we think of them as trash fish. The tast is very strong fishie, They tend to like the white meat better. Salmon and trout alike eat as many fry bass, as bass eat of the trout and salmon. Its about the fittest a week or hurt fish will be eaten by any other fish be it a trout, salmon, bass muskey, bluegill ect.. All the waters here in Wa are here for us as fishermen to enjoy. So C&R every thing you catch? Why that would be crazy!! Thin out the big ones so the little ones can grow? Not the answer!! Just start playing golf!!! Leave the fishing to me.

[ckim85]

The native non-native argument is moot because virtually nothing you can catch out of a land-locked lake in the state of Washington is native, including the trout. Everything was stocked at one time or another. We have our river run trout and salmon and some other species that are considered trash fish. Bass have been here longer than any of us have been alive, not to mention they are able to subsist in our lakes far better that trout which have to be stocked yearly. Bottom line is they are as native or more native than any other lake game fish in Washington.

i mentioned that i was not talking about lake planted trout. everyone knows they're not native. i was speaking of several different species of cutthroat in lakes which have suffered. And maybe you're right, completely landlocked lakes have mostly been planted but there are still many lakes that are creek fed that have population of our native trout, which are slowly declining due to bass.

"Bass have been here longer than any of us have been alive, not to mention they are able to subsist in our lakes far better that trout which have to be stocked yearly."

Again, you're just talking about put-and-take lakes that they plant with hatchery rainbow trout. I'm not addressing that.

Let's not get away from original topic at hand. Please PM me if you want to further discuss this.

[8theB8]

I would have to side with the rules and regs! However I am a die hard C&R man, I once caught the same tagged smallmouth on Lake Whatcom in back to back years, and he had grown 3/4 of a pound!! That was awesome and proof to me I was "living right by the bass Gods" LOL. I know folks that love the taste of bass, and I have no problem with them keeping a couple for the table as long as they stay legal in the process! Getting all worked up about it, or calling someone a "murderer" for harvesting a bass or two is utterly ridiculous and I for one am glad it isn't tolerated on this site! At the Sportsman's Show in Puyallup I was checking out some of the fiberglass fish, and I would have to say it changed my thinking on keeping a real one as a trophy, after all, say I catch, kill and mount a 9lb'er, then the following year catch one 10lbs....just defeated the purpose of keeping the 9...DOH!!

Oh well, great thread!!! Good fishing to all this year!!!

[Amx]

Well what you need to do is have stuffed, one fish of every pound size from 1lb to 20 lb. And then hang them on the wall in a nice 'family line'. :-)

[basser90]

I Think it's a case of being educated. I've fished here over 50 years with bass about 20 and and I C and R. Now. About 8 years ago (before I was full on C and R) my 10 year old son caught a 10+ largie. What a delema. He wanted to keep it so bad, I was so proud. My biggest being 8# (released) about 15 years ago. I thought long and hard about it and my son won. That day we released several in the 3 to 6 # range. No problem. But seeing how excited my son was and it also being legal, we kept it. Not to eat, but to mount. It's still sitting frozen in the freezer. Would I do it again today? No. Even lets say for a grandchild? No. For me, I got educated on the importance of C and R. and I think I would be able to help educate other people and pass it on. Would I condem somebody for keeping a legal fish. No way