Stronger Knot than Egg Loop for drift fishing?

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:18 am

I have lost numerous bigger fish recently

. I have been tying an egg-loop knot and everytime I have lost a fish, the knot breaks exactly at the eye of the hook. I have been running 12- 15lb leader and use Izorline for my leader. I use 2/0 Matzuo Octopus Hooks(never again though). I fished with a fella last weekend and mentioned people use a different knot to set up corky/yarn and is stronger than the egg loop..

Thanks for any help!!

gpc · Post by **gpc** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:39 am

I have also had this problem recently. Not on big fish like you, but when I get broke off by a snag it was right at the egg loop knot. 12lb vanish and 12lb maxima are my leaders. Hey Jens GAMAKATSU OR BUST. Acctually I am trying Owner brand hooks right now. Gamis are $8 for 25 and owners are $11 for 40. I went through 2 packs of gamis in the last 3 weeks so I wanted more bang for my buck, maybe I can milk 1 owner pack into 3 weeks lol

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:10 am

gpc wrote:I have also had this problem recently. Not on big fish like you, but when I get broke off by a snag it was right at the egg loop knot. 12lb vanish and 12lb maxima are my leaders. Hey Jens GAMAKATSU OR BUST. Acctually I am trying Owner brand hooks right now. Gamis are $8 for 25 and owners are $11 for 40. I went through 2 packs of gamis in the last 3 weeks so I wanted more bang for my buck, maybe I can milk 1 owner pack into 3 weeks lol

Man, I know, Gam's are just so expensive, but I am kicking myself for going the cheaper rout. Do not buy hooks on ebay that sell 100 for $4 like I did. I had several that were straightened out by some kings the past couple weekends. I heard Owner's will do that too.
A guy I fished next to last weekend said there is a better, stronger knot that won't break at the eye. Hopefully, someone will know what I am talking about..:bounce: :bounce:

BentRod · Post by **BentRod** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:23 am

I feel your pain.....horrible feeling to have the line break at the knot when you're fighting a fish.
I've seen demonstrations that show the palomar knot to be one of the strongest fishing knots out there, so if you could incorporate a cinch loop into it somewhere, that might be your ticket.
The only other knot that I've seen that is similar to the egg loop is the snell knot. This has potential, but I do not have much experience with it, except where it has been pre-tied on the hooks I've bought....which are probably available on Ebay!

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:28 am

BentRod wrote:I feel your pain.....horrible feeling to have the line break at the knot when you're fighting a fish.
I've seen demonstrations that show the palomar knot to be one of the strongest fishing knots out there, so if you could incorporate a cinch loop into it somewhere, that might be your ticket.
The only other knot that I've seen that is similar to the egg loop is the snell knot. This has potential, but I do not have much experience with it, except where it has been pre-tied on the hooks I've bought....which are probably available on Ebay!

LOL- I found the snell knot on the net, it looks like it can do the trick, but I was getting frustrated trying to tie it. I am thinking the snell knot is what that old timer was talking about..
I like to tie about 30 pre-tied leaders when I have been fishing lately.

Post by **G-Man** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:29 am

The first thought that runs through my mind is the knot isn't being tied correctly. Are all the winds laying properly and pulled tight? If it doesn't look perfect or you nicked the line with the tip of the hook, start over with new line. I can't say that I ever remember having a bumper knot/egg loop fail on me. I have noticed that fluorocarbon line is especially sensitive to heat generated by the friction of pulling the line through the knot when tightening it up. This can lead to breaks where you feel the line has burned/frayed. I use a little dab of dish soap and pull real slow when using fluorocarbon, especially on leaders of 12lb and under. Second, the line is gong to break somewhere if you exceed its rated strength. Breaking off at the hook is where you want it to happen, this way there isn't a bunch of leader or mainline loose in the water. Now if you think the line is breaking prematurely, there are a few things to check. Where the eye of the hook is closed, does the end of the wire have a sharp edge? If so, there are a couple of things you can do. One, change hook brands, gamas have always done me good, to one with a rounded edge. Two, Wrap your bumper knot in a direction opposite the cinch so that the line does not make contact with the edge of the wire.

One last thing to consider. After you hook into and land a fish, re-tie your rig. I can't count the number of times I've seen folks use the same rig after landing a fish only to have it fail on the next one. Salmon and trout have large, sharp teeth and can easily damage fishing lines. When they jump and shake their heads with their mouth open they can easily abrade or cut through your line. I also check my line and leaders by feel and sight on a regular basis, any anomalies and I fix it on the spot.

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:35 am

I do use Fluorocarbon leaders also, and I am sure the line will occasionally knick the hook while I am tying. I was thinking maybe the teeth was cutting the line, but when I would reel in, the breakage would be right at the eye. An old-timer down at the Cow said the locals stay away from the eggloop because of the breakage at the eye, he didn't know the name of the knot or how to do it.

Post by **G-Man** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:03 am

I can't imagine a different knot being used for drift fishing corky and yarn, especially on the Cowlitz. Check out this link and make sure were talking about the same knot. http://www.steelheaduniversity.com/loop.html Tied properly it's a 100% strength knot. In essence it is just a snell with extra loops in front of the knot for protection and to provide space to add bait and yarn.

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:28 am

G-Man wrote:I can't imagine a different knot being used for drift fishing corky and yarn, especially on the Cowlitz. Check out this link and make sure were talking about the same knot. http://www.steelheaduniversity.com/loop.html Tied properly it's a 100% strength knot. In essence it is just a snell with extra loops in front of the knot for protection and to provide space to add bait and yarn.

I bet what I am doing is on the last pull through, I am pulling it way to fast causing that friction and burn that is mentioned.

Thank you for the info guys! :cyclopsan

Post by **Bodofish** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:47 pm

Lube it up before you pull it............. That sounds bad...... The line! Get out of the gutter!

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:19 pm

Bodofish wrote:Lube it up before you pull it............. That sounds bad...... The line! Get out of the gutter!

Ah, so vaseline and jergens can be used for line also? Nice!!

noclothes1 · Post by **noclothes1** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:32 pm

jens wrote:
Bodofish wrote:Lube it up before you pull it............. That sounds bad...... The line! Get out of the gutter!
Ah, so vaseline and jergens can be used for line also? Nice!!

Best post ever!

losaturn · Post by **losaturn** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:40 pm

jens wrote:
gpc wrote:I have also had this problem recently. Not on big fish like you, but when I get broke off by a snag it was right at the egg loop knot. 12lb vanish and 12lb maxima are my leaders. Hey Jens GAMAKATSU OR BUST. Acctually I am trying Owner brand hooks right now. Gamis are $8 for 25 and owners are $11 for 40. I went through 2 packs of gamis in the last 3 weeks so I wanted more bang for my buck, maybe I can milk 1 owner pack into 3 weeks lol
Man, I know, Gam's are just so expensive, but I am kicking myself for going the cheaper rout. Do not buy hooks on ebay that sell 100 for $4 like I did. I had several that were straightened out by some kings the past couple weekends. I heard Owner's will do that too.
A guy I fished next to last weekend said there is a better, stronger knot that won't break at the eye. Hopefully, someone will know what I am talking about..:bounce: :bounce:

Walmart has Gami's in packs of 50 for around $6.00

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:15 pm

quote: Walmart has Gami's in packs of 50 for around $6.00

What!! Cool, I am there! Our household is anti-walmart(well my honey is) but, that is way cheaper than the $30 bucks I have seen them selling for.

curado · Post by **curado** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:26 pm

no floracarbon zero breaks easier maxima ultra green for leader i have not lost on fish on my egg loops. jens are you sure you are tying it right? owner and gammas only

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:52 pm

curado wrote:no floracarbon zero breaks easier maxima ultra green for leader i have not lost on fish on my egg loops. jens are you sure you are tying it right? owner and gammas only

I think I haven't been wrapping my line enough. I have been doing 7/7. I didn't think that made a difference. But even so, it was brought up on the river over the weekend that there is a better, stronger knot than the egg loop.

curado · Post by **curado** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:38 pm

i will do 8 to 9 wraps the 5 to 6 no more or less flourocarbon is nice but it has its limitations

Post by **G-Man** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:59 pm

I normally don't wrap more than 5 - 7 for the bumper and 7-10 for the snell so I don't think that 7/7 would be an issue. Going back many moons, to when I was firt introduced to river fishing, folks would simply snell the hook back away from the eye about 1/4" to 1/2" and use the gap to help form the loop. A tight snell never really moved from where it was originally tied. There is another knot similar to the snell that is used for eyeless hooks, but I can't see it being more than 100%. Here is a link on how to tie it: Eyeless Hook Knot I know these hooks and knots have been used for quite some time, but I can't seem to wrap my head around the thought of using a hook without an eye.

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:00 pm

curado wrote:i will do 8 to 9 wraps the 5 to 6 no more or less flourocarbon is nice but it has its limitations

Does your leaders twist your corky/yarn? I noticed my leaders do that a lot, so maybe the twisting is decreasing the strength?? I don't know, just frustrated to lose fish consistently right at the eye.

Jake Dogfish · Post by **Jake Dogfish** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:29 pm

I don't see it the problem being a properly tied snell. Unless there is something sharp on the hook I would think that the the wraps around the hook would be the best pressure holding, more than any type of actual "knot" above it. Floro can be a problem, it is brittle and its best to buy a much higher test than you would a mono IMO...

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Stronger Knot than Egg Loop for drift fishing?

Stronger Knot than Egg Loop for drift fishing?

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