economy and trout

[HillbillyGeek]

Plus the devil Gregoire is going to close hatcheries as well as raise our licencing fees. So yes, we will all be effected and our lakes will to. To bad she doesn't realize how much the fishing industry means to this state. Cut, cut, cut, that is the name of the game so far. Maybe she will be kind enough to throw some funds the WDFW's way if she gets the stimulus package she is asking for from the Gov.

Yeah, its all Gov. Gregoire's fault. She masterminds the detriment of every fishery in the state. That *****...

Seriously you think she lies awake at night thinking of how to screw over fishermen? You guys need to get a broader sense of regional government.

It sucks, no doubt, that the stockers are going to go down in number. I can't agree more that Id like to see that program stronger than it is and able to make more happen as far as keeping lakes plugged with fish.

Conversely, every single person who complains about the license prices going up and the DECREASE OF GOVERNMENTAL SERVICES SUCH AS FISH HATCHERY PROGRAMS are the exact same people who complain constantly about PAYING TAXES.

One must balance their wants and desires with real world economics. The sales tax revenue is down substantially state wide. How else can we fund the government subsidized program of stocking fish in lakes than with tax dollars? If you want to strengthen the hatchery program, you should start a petition, let that grow to a ballot initiative, and have the entire fisheries program paid for by licensing fees. I know its brutal that we have to pay a whopping 2 hrs worth of a $13/hr salary for our freshwater license every year.....

E

Gov Gregoire is a successful politician. (That's NOT a compliment.) She is also a liar -- which is something politicians put on their resumes.

It is interesting that when the Reel News asked for her positions regarding fishing resources, her office ignored the request.
THEN to top it off, when she got called on it, one of her flunkies LIED and said that the governor's office HAD responded.
http://www.thereelnews.com/html/editor_s_creel.HTM

Hmm... they are either incompetent, or just plain stupid. Probably both.

After ignoring sport fishermen for the first four years, now she's saying that we've got a problem and need to act fast! Talk about a political chameleon! She can conveniently blame ex WDFW director Koenings for past screw ups now that he's gone. But while he was still in office, she never had a problem with him. Go figure...

[Gisteppo]

Has anyone here worked in government?

Do you have any idea how many aides it takes to handle all of the irons in the fire?

Do you really think with the budget in the toilet thanks to depressed sales tax revenues and various Tim Eyeman initiatives (none of which were as good as you might think) that doing some comments in a fishing rag is really at the top of her list? Should you hold that against her?

Im not defending the Governor particularly, Im defending the office. If Dino Rossi was Gov, you would ***** about the same things because the office requires focus on certain issues far more than others. Its a fact of life.

To bring an issue to the forefront requires constituents to make it a priority. Start an email campaign to show her how important sportfishing is.

E

[Rollin with Rolland]

you are all more articulated than me.

I don't really follow politics very well. I thought in general our Gov. was OK on fisheries resources issues. But like I said, i don't follow it real close. Here is what I gather:

Maybe we all should start some sort of initiative if we are all really that upset with the fisheries management. I know government, and it takes time and connections, but if enough people stop arguing and start acting........we'll be set. I ACT...I volunteer for local salmon habitat restoration in our counties rivers/streams.....take action into your own hands if you want it bad enough!!

[Gisteppo]

Our current Gov has been very proactive in salmon fishery recovery and species protection, including being a very vocal and active in getting more water put through the Columbia/Snake dams to increase both returning salmon seasonally and smolt transport during spring and summer. She has done many good things for salt fisheries, but little has been changed as of late with trout and warmwater fish. Trout has been offered as a place they can cut to relieve some budgetary shortfalls since its a high cost portion of the WDFW.

Don't sell her short because you don't like the D after her name. She has done much for the fish themselves, and this can only benefit anglers.

As for action by R with R, I think you should start a thread, develop a cohesive plan of what you want done, and start putting people together. I can help get you steered to some other places to garner support if needed, and possibly get a ballot initiative started.

E

[Mike Carey]

not to make the thread go sideways, but I'll bet it was a heck of a lot more than $2,000. It would be interesting to know the actual amount to fly a governor, staff, etc to Iraq, provide security (oh, never mind, I guess we are already there for that... )

[SmokinAces]

I know that everyone and everything is going to have to take drawbacks with the economy how it is but seriously.... the pay raises is rediculous when everyone else is loosing their jobs. As a boeing employee that recently lost their job it is a slap in the face that our government officals are getting raises.

Just my .02

[Gonefishing]

Remember it wasn't just Gov. Gregoire that went to Iraq. Govs. Jon Corzine of New Jersey and Rick Perry of Texas also went. Trip was set up well before our beloved floods. The three states mentioned had/have national guard troops in Iraq right now. The trip wasn't all Democrats so don't blame the party line for the trip either. The trip was paid by the federal government who of course was paid by all the U.S. tax payers.

Like Washington state New Jersey is dealing with a budget problem, the governor of New Jersey defended the trip during the budget crisis and responded that the timing of the trip was defended by the defense department.

On the otherhand I thought the money that Fish and Game err the state collect from us for licenses was to pay for Fish and Game as well as stocking fees of lakes etc? If payroll and costs to plant the lakes have gone up and the only way to pay for those current services is to raise the fees or pray more people buy licenses.... granted the fact I'm seeing more wardens out lately busting more people for not having licenses or the proper ones lately.

Being one of those that is out of a job I'm sure I will look at things and wonder if I can afford to buy the fishing license. But as I said before to my wife its golf or fishing. I've already got the gear and trust me golf equipment and green fees will cost way more :D

On the other hand I don't like the fact that hatcheries are going to close but Gregoire did say that this was a budge that nobody was going to like and it would affect almost everybody.

Since the revenue stream isn't there you have a few choices. Cuts with reductions, or tax increases.

[AdsBot [Google]]

Although I am not a fan of Christine, I am sure that the upcoming hatchery closures are not the result of her lack of caring but rather by the recommendations suggested by WDFW advisory board. I believe there are issues with maintenance cost and usefulness, not necessarily budgetary considerations. She is only reacting to their advice. I think we are going to see some major changes in our total hatchery system in the near future. We already see this happening on the Cowlitz. After 70 plus years of research and data collection they, being WDFW, think they have got it wrong and are starting to correct some of their procedures for collecting adults and rearing smolts for both salmon and trout. Although painful for us all in the short run, maybe it will be for the best in the long run. I hope so.

[Gisteppo]

Well said Gonefishing and Stampie....

E

[Salmonking]

[qupte]However, when she decides to fly off to Iraq to thank the troops for their votes... Worst of all during the floods, on our dime. I think thats shady. On top of that, they (gov.) voted and gave themselves a pay raise, and in the shape the economy is.

I have no problem forking over $2000 for a flight to Iraq to thank those fighting over there personally. They've earned a few dignitaries kissing their asses doing the work they do.

The pay raise, you may find, was voted by the body of your legislators, and was just as popular on the right side of the aisle as the left. I think they are all criminals for that. Can't really blame the gov for it.

As for the trout issue, lets start a campaign initiative to strip state funding and make all licensing fees go to the fishing services of the state. Those govt agencies that are responsible for the fish propagation and facilities maintenance at our local launches. Bear in mind that we would be looking at $100/yr or better for licensing, but we would be solely responsible for our fisheries and would know how exactly to support it.

E[/quote]

I too being a vet, and disagree. When they come over they don't kiss nobodies ars. They are in thier special places, and covered with the POA. She had no bussiness there. The group she met with only had two people from our state(which didn't vote for her). The truthof the matter in my opinon is that our nation has become PC(Politically Correct) friendly and they don't want to offend this group or that group. What happened to the people that tell it the way it is and leave it at that.
How ever, I do like your idea of our funds that we pay for the fishing lic. go right back into the sport/fishery.

[clam man]

Gisteppo,

I respect your fishing chops and you sound like you understand the complexities of governance. But The current WA state legislature and governor are, and will continue to be terrible for our state and economy...including the fisheries. Too many poor choices with budget, programs, and taxes, all hurting, rather than helping the situation. I do believe a different person as governor would do a much better job of balancing our budget and preserving our assets and taxes. To give the D's in Olympia a pass for this budget problem and resultant fisheries issues is a fairly week argument. Could I fix it? Maybe. Do I believe that another governor could do a much better job (by number one, not lying to us about MASSIVE budget shortfalls?) Yes I certainly do. Hopefully the voters of this state (the whole state...not just Seattle and west King County) will vote for our best interests, and not just party line.

[Gisteppo]

Clam, thats an interesting take.

I have never believed, even for a second, that Gregoire has that kind of power. The action of our government at the state level is not about one person. With the type of representation we have, at best she is an overgrown lobbyist.

Mind you, every bill that passes has lived a long life of committee and debate in the houses. Frequently the tasks of Governor are to consolidate the data provided to her by the various state agencies, make certain decisions on what she would like to see as the action taken, and then this data is turned over to the houses to decide which pieces stay, which go, and what is done in the final version. Often her recommendations are completely abandoned because constituents like us go out and make a large enough stink so as to show them their vote in the house matters.

Gregoire isn't the perfect candidate. I preferred Locke personally. We deal with Dino Rossi over here on a regular basis, and I can tell you unequivocally that interests such as strengthening fish populations, improving the fiscal inefficiencies of the state, solvency of programs such as the PERS and LEOFF retirement programs, and the types of working class issues you and I deal with daily were NOT on his agenda. You would have seen a restructuring of corporate and business tax, a decrease in pay and benefits for low level public employees (those making under $50k a year), significant program cuts (which we can all reasonably assume would be the same cuts in fisheries we are seeing now, as the agency heads would be the same people, regardless of who is Governor) without any sort of plan to rebuild.

I very much understand your frustration. I can't stand the thought that we might lose our salmon fishery as we know it, as the halibut looks to go the way the rockfish has. I get sick of hearing how much money the state loses, but unless sales tax revenue improves, it won't make a bit of difference. Remember people like Tim Eyeman, pushing through I-695 and I-747, have limited the ability for the state to create solvent financial business. It may feel good to you to not have expensive car tabs, but coming from a native Oregonian, you definitely don't want an income tax. The income tax is much more effective at steadying a state budget, but is more costly to those who can least afford it.

You need to take your sentiments and make them heard to YOUR representative in Oly. Though we eastsiders feel like Seattle is against us, you might be very, very surprised at how much money those people pay into OUR infrastructure. Look at the statistics of actual dollar sales tax revenue statewide. They pay for OUR roads, they pay for OUR power grid improvements, they pay for OUR parks. Though the ads may hint otherwise, the revenue in that area is something like 6:1 to Spokane's, and we utilize the funds at a rate closer to 3:1.

Im always happy to talk about our government at the local, state, and federal level. Having worked in federal and municipal agencies, as well as private sector jobs, I think those with an open mind can see both sides of an issue.

E

[Bodofish]

Yep..

[clam man]

Gisteppo,


you notice in my first sentence I mention the legislature. Trust me, I do understand the governance of our state VERY well, and have pondered every thing you mentioned. I have however come to many different conclusions than many of our voters here in western Washington. And as you mentioned, as Western WA goes, so goes the state. What bothers me about our current WA gov (which by and large is one branch now with total D control in Olympia, and courts very sympathetic to D ideas) is that they really, really don't care about serving the people anymore, but rather having the people serve them.

I am not a naive "throw em all out" blowhard, but I am very disgusted with the state of our local elected officials. I have spoken with my elected officials, including our Governor, face to face, and came away with a greater feeling of disappointment and anger than before I spoke with them. My local rep was so disrespectful and arrogant I was shocked. Tell me how things like the CAO, eminent domain, proposed income tax, lack of services, and outright disrespect helps the people of rural king, pierce, and Snohomish county? It doesn't. What about tolls on the two busiest east west roads in king county, light rail fraud and abuse, sound transit theft, budget deceit and non projects? They don't. This state has handed over thousands of acres of land to large developers for political favor, while on the other hand limiting legitimate land use from private owners, and access to wildlife areas to citizens. I have lived ALL over our nation, and grew up here, but this is one of the worst run states in the union.

I am not anti-tax. I am pro-smart budgeting.

Maybe things are different out there in eastern Washington, but out here if you don't live in the city, and you don't have a big D next to your heart, our state government is not really concerned about your opinion. I have ten acres of land in king country that I might not be able to build (financially and time for permits) on because of CAO. It is not wetland, however ten minutes up the road trilogy homes offers "wetlands property" on Redmond ridge in their massive housing development.

What I am tired of is myopic, social engineering laws, rather than servant governance. Gregoire does have veto power, and control of the legislature. She can do things differently, she just chooses not to.

We need a strong leader. Rossi might not be that person, but Gregoire certainly isn't. Certainly not for this state, not for sportsmen, and not for fishermen. (which as much as I love fishing, does take a distant second to efficient, honest government.) Keep it real Gisteppo, you are not just a great fisherman but a fairly wise person!

[Gisteppo]

My local rep was so disrespectful and arrogant I was shocked.

Who was it?

What about tolls on the two busiest east west roads in king county, light rail fraud and abuse, sound transit theft, budget deceit and non projects? They don't. This state has handed over thousands of acres of land to large developers for political favor...

I am on EXACTLY the same page as you are on this one. Its been an insane fight you guys have to wage over there. One of the funny parts of that, at least for those of us on the dry side, is that the tax dollar pool you should have had to mess around with the Viaduct project has been squeezed over our way for both the North/South freeway project in Spokane (another imminent domain issue), and some unsafe highway mitigation adding things such as Jersey barriers to prevent head on collisions. For that, we thank you for your taxes.

Rossi had many a campaign promise to alleviate certain issues such as land owner usage rights. He came out bold faced and said he would repeal much of what the state says you can and cannot do with property you own. When delving further into the matter, you will find that it has nothing to do with the situation you yourself have, but actually worked exactly the way your neighbor there, Trilogy Homes. His intent wasn't to help out the landowner, it was to soften regulations to allow vastly increased construction on places such as riparian and watershed lands, which are plentiful to the west, and are responsible for what water purity we still retain for our fishery.

while on the other hand limiting legitimate land use from private owners, and access to wildlife areas to citizens

Spend a little time reading up on some of the lands policies that the State Parks Commission has. They fight every day with the representatives above them to get more land, giving you and I and everyone else more access to more public land than any other state. We have an incredible parks system, which preserves large tracts all over the state, in various ecosystems, and with a plethora of heritage, habitat, and preservation motives. A great example is that I live inside Riverside State Park. I can literally walk across the street to a park that stretches 15 miles in length, giving activities from fishing to horseback riding, to mountain biking and hiking, to ATV and off road vehicle parks. This is a function of who we have now, so bear the conservationists in mind when it comes to parks, public use, and access. Lake access by parkland (under state ownership) is the last and best defense from closed lakes where you can't touch the shoreline. A great case in point is Coeur d'Alene. Massive body of water, zero public parks to nose the boat onto or to fish from the rocks.

Gregoire does have veto power, and control of the legislature.

You yourself said it above. With so much D in the houses, she actually does not have this power. We have a supermajority of representation, so she can't touch what they decide. Though she can work with them to modify, she can't stop anything.

I appreciate your candor, and you definitely have a good strong foundation of knowledge on the subjects. I get a little tired of the "dems are anti-xxxxx because they hate Amurica" crowd, so its refreshing to have someone to learn from who takes the time to know the topic and who can express themselves in more than monosyllabic grunts.

Im right there with you, except Im the pinko-commie surrounded by camo wearing 'pubs.

E

[wolverine]

When oh when are the repubs in this state going to come up with an electable candidate? I'm normally an "R" guy but the party in this state has a far right death wish when it comes to the govs office. As far as Dino goes; would I fish with him? Yup. Would I vote for him? Nope. When you follow the money you could easily see who he was going to have pay back with political favors. Like the song goes "Pave paradise put up a parking lot".