bass size limit

[YellowBear]

Why is there a double standerd on what is a leagle catch?
When I go out,I can retain 4 fish under 12 inches and 1 over 17 in most waters.
A tournament boat can retain 5 fish of any size.
Why is it that a tournament boat does not have to fish for 4 fish that are as close to 12 inches as posible and 1 of 17 inches or bigger?
Now before the tournament guys get all upset and tell me that all of the fish caught in a tournament are released which I allready know,I also know that they all do not survive.
I am not trying to start a war here.I am just trying to understand.

[Mike Carey]

well, a few things. Dave definately releases all his fish. Second, the clips are through the lower mouth I believe, not the gills. Last, the shot is from Silver lake resort (I'm almost sure) and the fish no doubt went right back.

But I still don't get a clear sense of this reg. The reg is poorly written for one thing. Not to pull a Pres Clinton on everyone, but the term possesion is fuzzy. Cause if they are in the well they are in your possesion. So is the reg saying you can keep all those big fish in order to sort the one you want and then release the rest, or you have to decide each time you get one over 17" which one you want to keep and then release the other, so you always only have one in the well? I think that's how I'm reading it. And I agree, you have to release the 12-17" fish immediately. Man I wish we had a WDFW guy on this site.

The problem for me as an Editor is everytime Dave or someone posts a shot like this I get several irritated guys e-mailing me. I'd like to do the right thing here. I don't want to be posting illegal fishing practises. BTW, Dave is a really nice guy and always willing to help out fellow anglers, just an FYI.

[MikeFishes]

Okay, so a couple of questions:
1. If you have a livewell, can you catch 4 BMB, keep on fishing, releasing the smaller ones as you go on, until you decide to keep your 5th? (so long as all of them are in the lakes limits)
2. Do you return the fish you caught into the same area where you caught him? Bass are territorial animals, correct? Perhaps you caught the fish because it was guarding something?

And one quick thought on keeping the fish for a "group picture". How would one take a picture (or post a picture here) that shows all the biggest fish you caught if you can't take them all together? Perhaps there's an opportunity tere for someone to develop something and try to sell it?

[tnj8222]

since there has been so much talk on this subject i have contacted wdfw myself after many phone calls to get somebody who could answer this i was given the name mike foster, after a quick search mike is a warden for the cowlitz county area. i couldnt find a phone number but i got his email address so i shot him a email today. heres the email and i will update with a response as soon as i get one.


"We are having a discussion on whether its legal or not to keep bass on a stringer (but they will be released) Will from section 5 said it would be best to contact you on this matter. So the big question is can you keep bass over 12 inches in your livewell? How about putting 5 fish on a stringer that are over 12 inches?(just for picture purposes) thanks for any reply you can give me. If you would like you can check out the topic we are discussing. Just so you know we are talking about this on washingtonlakes.com heres a link to the thread.
http://washingtonlakes.com/Forum/viewto ... ?t=851&p=1
Anthony Jay"

[Smalma]

Ignoring tournament fishing and focusing on the general regulation waters (slot limit).

It is illegal to retain any bass between 12 and 17 inches. since it is illegal to have those fish it is illegal to place them in your live wells which would be reducing them to possession; ie retaining them.

In addition it is illegal to retain more than 1 bass over 17 inches. So again it would be illegal to have more than one such fish in your live well. If you had a 18 inch fish in the live well you would have to release that fish before placing a larger one in the live well. Again at no time could you any fish between 12 and 17 inches and only one over 17 in your live well at any time (unless fishing a permitted tournament or a non-slot limit lake).

Mike -
I'm sure how much clearer the regulation can be written with out making it a much larger paragraph. However why don'tt take a shot at it and submit it to WDFDW for clarification?

Or if you or others think you should be able to have those illegal fish in your live wells why didn't you submit a regulation change proposal this spring when WDFW was asking for such suggestions?


Tight lines
Curt

[tnj8222]

[quote="Smalma"]Ignoring tournament fishing and focusing on the general regulation waters (slot limit).

It is illegal to retain any bass between 12 and 17 inches. since it is illegal to have those fish it is illegal to place them in your live wells which would be reducing them to possession]

do you realize how many people actually keep fish in there livewell. i know alot of people dont even realize its illegal if it is illegal. when i called the wdfw, the guy on the phone had no idea if it was illegal or not.

[Smalma]

tnj-
Yes I know that a number of folks keep fish in their live wells. However I'm sure that makes a good idea or that we should change the law to allow such activity. It is not much different the how people currently drive on our freeways. Lots of folks drive at more than 70 mph - I don't think that we should eliminate the speed limit just because some folks will not obey the law.

Let's review this again -
The in the pamphlet under bass daily limit it is pretty clear that only bass less than 12 inches can be retained, except that 1 over 17 inches may also be retained.

A definition of retain is "to hold in possession" - which makes it pretty clear that putting fish in the protected slot (between 12 and 17 inches) in the live well or more than one fish over 17 inches is in violation of the daily bass limit .

Why do you think folks should be allowed to violate the daily limit on bass?

Let's think about the case of a couple bass poachers on the local bass pond who have say 4 or 5 17 to 22 inch bass in their live well. Their intention is to have a fish fry. If the game warden checks them on the water do we want them to get a ticket? I'm guessing that would be the case. However if it were legal to have more than the daily limit in the live well then they could not be ticketed while they were on the water - they would be vulunerable to recieving a citation for only the brief period that they were at the boat launch and even there they could probably claim that they were going to release the fish before leaving if the game warden happened along.

Keeping the poachers in check is all ready tough enough. I for one would not like to see things relaxed so it becomes even tougher to catch one of those rats. Especially if the only reason to relax the regilation is so someone can take a "stringer picture".

Tight lines
Curt

[danielt]

Here is the deal.... (and i didn't read the last 5 post above this you so sorry for any repeating)

If you are bass fishing for a tournament or for fun...you can catch 5 bass and keep them in your well then when you catch the 6th you put back the smallest one. That way you always have 5 and no more or less. I guess that would be more for tournament fishing because there's no limit for keeping bass.

As far as the bass on a stringer...like I said. You dont string them by the gill like you would a trout or something you are going to kill. You poke a hole in the lip and clip it. It doesn't hurt them and its not a "no no".

[tnj8222]

no offense Smalma but i agree with danielt

[zen leecher aka Bill W]

Current WDFW regs agree with Smalma.

[Smalma]

tnj-
Interesting that you would agree with someone that admits that they have not read the previous posts and offers nothing to support his position. Can't say that I'm not surprised and if you wish to continue to ignore state law go for it but I hope you are not back crying about getting pinched.

For those that are interested it would be best to go to the source which in this case can be found in the Washington Adminstrative Code (WAC); specifically


WAC 220-56-510
"Game fish possession limits and size limits.
It is unlawful to retain or possess game fish taken in excess of the daily, possession, or license year possession limits, or game fish that do not conform to the size limits provided for in this section, unless otherwise provided for in WAC 232-28-619.

(1) Daily game fish possession and size limits:


Species Daily limit Size limits
Bass 5 Release bass 12 to 17 inches in length. Not more than 1 bass 17 inches in length or greater may be retained."

Now it has been a long time since I was in school but I'm pretty sure what WAC 220-56-510 means is that having bass in your live well that are between 12 and 17 inches would not conform to the size limits -ergo would be unlawful. In addition having more than 1 fish over 17 inches would also not be conforming with the size and daily limits.

The only way it would not be illegal is that if you some how are arguing that placing the fish in a live well is neither retaining or possessing them. Don't think that will fly.

Tight lines
Curt

[fishnislife]

I was hoping this post would bring Dave out and he would start posting up in the forum. The guy is plumb full of knowledge. This site definitely benifits from his great reports but what if he was in here spilling out his mind?

COME ON DAVE! Jump in the waters fine.
Don't feel like your being attacked. Everyone here knows you C&R, their just seeking clarification on this issue.


fishnislife

[beerman1981]

I was hoping this post would bring Dave out and he would start posting up in the forum. The guy is plumb full of knowledge. This site definitely benifits from his great reports but what if he was in here spilling out his mind?

COME ON DAVE! Jump in the waters fine.
Don't feel like your being attacked. Everyone here knows you C&R, their just seeking clarification on this issue.


fishnislife

Yeah bud, we are all fisherman here. We're all like one happy family, that disagrees occasionally, lol. But seriously, I would love to be proven wrong. I wouldn't care. I was just posting a thread based on what I observed on a picture, and I thought my observations were quite justified, BUT, after reading all these people sticking up for you, I realize I could definately be wrong. It sounds like you are a C and R guy, which is great, but as everyone has pointed out, there is such a gray area when it comes to this debate. All I was trying to do was stand up for the sport that gives me a little bit of sanity (haha). Give us a holler back Dave, we'd love to hear from you, and your knowledge of the regulations. Keep on catchin' those nice hawgs!!!

Joe

[skeeter bassin]

As an angler who fishes for fun and in tournaments I need to reply. Smalma is on the money here. The regs are very clear in my opinion, and do not leave anything to interpretation. As previously stated, there is a 5 fish limit with a slot between 12"-17" (nothing can be retained or possessed, whatever wording makes you happy) and ONLY 1 fish over 17' may be retained/possessed.

As far as tournament fishing goes, the only reason we are exempt during permitted tournament hours is because a permit has been applied for and approved by the State. Permits are not just given out to everybody and are governed by the state. There are very strict limitations to how many boats are permitted to be on a body of water (35 on Silver in Cowlitz for example), only 2 tournaments a month can be held on a body of water, reports on catch of both LM and SM have to be turned in following the tournament, and in some lakes at certain times of year tournament anglers have even more strict regulations on them than the recreational anglers do. An example being in previous years LM were off limits at tournaments on Banks, Wallula, and Long lake in Spokane. Only this year was the tournament criteria changed to allow 1 LM over 17" to be weighed on these waters during May and June. This was to protect the spawning LM. These regulations allow for the slot sized and larger fish to be retained during permitted tournament hours only, but do not allow for recreational angling to violate these regulations.

On a side note somebody previously mentioned taking fish off the beds to be detrimental. I agree with that!! That is why anytime I take a fish off a bed, I immediately GPS the location and return those fish to the exact spot that I got them. I made an 8 mile run after a tourny this weekend to return a fish that was protecting fry. I know that some other anglers do the same, but would like to see many more practice this ethic. This includes anglers not in tournaments that are retaining fish for a future photo shoot.

[bpm2000]

On a side note somebody previously mentioned taking fish off the beds to be detrimental. I agree with that!! That is why anytime I take a fish off a bed, I immediately GPS the location and return those fish to the exact spot that I got them. I made an 8 mile run after a tourny this weekend to return a fish that was protecting fry. I know that some other anglers do the same, but would like to see many more practice this ethic. This includes anglers not in tournaments that are retaining fish for a future photo shoot.

If you are in the camp that thinks bed fishing is detrimental, why even GPS/bed fish in the first place? Shouldn't you be returning the bass to the bed IMMEDIATELY after capture? An 8-mile to/fro where fry were being protected sounds like more than enough time for them to get eaten to me.

I DON'T think bed fishing is detrimental, but only because they get returned where they were caught right after they were caught.

Not attacking - just wondering about your justification to "agreeing that taking fish of beds to be detrimental" yet hauling them off for the length of the tourney.

[tnj8222]

Smalma there was no disrespect intended. i was just agreeing with somebody i thought was right. that fact that he didnt read the post meant nothing to me, he is in a very well known bass club so i really respect his opinion. not that i dont respect everybodys. anyways thanks for making me see the light lol.

skeeter bassin. thanks for making this a little more clear for me. it does make sense that the permit is the reason the fish can be retained.

although i am still waiting to hear back from wdfw, i think the question is answered. thanks guys!

[danielt]

thanks TJN...

Sal, that fact that i didnt read the 4 post above only my last one dosent make me wrong, but i guess if it helps you sleep better thats fine with me.

[Smalma]

danlit -
All I have tried to do was to supply information to folks who wish to fish within the regulations so that they could avoid an unnecessary encounter with the local wildlife agent.

I'm interested in how you interpret the following state law that would allow anyone fishing for fun to possess regardless of their size 5 bass in their livewell. I think it is pretty clear that fish between 12 and 17 inches as well as having more than 1 fish over 17 inches does not conform with the size limits provided in WAS 22-56-510

WAC 220-56-510
"Game fish possession limits and size limits.
It is unlawful to retain or possess game fish taken in excess of the daily, possession, or license year possession limits, or game fish that do not conform to the size limits provided for in this section, unless otherwise provided for in WAC 232-28-619.

(1) Daily game fish possession and size limits:


Species Daily limit Size limits
Bass 5 Release bass 12 to 17 inches in length. Not more than 1 bass 17 inches in length or greater may be retained." ...


Tight lines
Curt

[skeeter bassin]

Bpm - First and foremost I an angler, an angler who happens to tournament fish, and an angler that respects the sport and most importantly the resource and do what I can to protect it. Not only so that you and I have an opportunity to catch the same fish again, but more importantly so my son and other future anglers have the same opporunity.

This in mind, I fish in different ways depending on if I am fishing in a tournament or recreationally. While fishing for fun, I will still target bedding fish. I agree with you 100% that the detriment to catching a bedding fish is extremely minimal to nil when that fish is immediately released, and I do practice CPR. For most, and myself included, the alure of fishing is to have an opportunity to catch that once in a lifetime trophy fish. While bass fishing, targeting bedding fish presents us with the best opportunity.

While tournament fishing I will also target bedding fish, while there is some risk to some fry being lost while I have that fish in my livewell, I will do my best to minimize that damage by making that trip back to where that fish was caught. As a tournament angler I am not going to put a 5lb plus fish back in the water and not weigh it in, but i will do everything I am capable of to return that fish to the spot it was caught. I think this is a good practice and will continue to do so.

In my mind the important message here is that we all need to be cognizant of releasing bedding fish to where they were caught. Too often we see pics posted of bedding fish that are taken at the launch, with quotes that the fish was released to be caught again. We need to get the message out that it is an incredible experience to have the opportunity to catch that fish. But we need to take our pictures right there and release that fish, not release them at the launch. As tournament anglers, we need to make more of an effort to return those fish to where they were caught after weigh in has been complete.

[bpm2000]

sounds good to me skeet! :thumleft: