why the salmon population is runnig low

[TheOne]

now im shure there are anglers out there who catch and relese and mabey even sometimes keep a fish or two witch is fine i dont think thats messing up the population.but heres what is.so far for 3 days in a row wen i have gone fishing i have noticed people running out huge nets! any salmon that were there are gone.that means less will be able to return up stream and spaw so STOP RUNNING OUT THE KILL NETS YOUR KILLING ALL THE FISH. i would like to say were is the WDFW wen this is happeing?? seriously..shouldnt there or isnt there a law on that kind of stuff? cause wen your running out kill nets or nets peiried you catching all the fish like salmon witch means less and less can retun up stream to spawn.witch in return gives us this weak salmon population.and thats like cheating at fishing really. i mean weres the challenge in running out nets?

[Shad_Eating_Grin]

The local legal libraries, fishing publications, and the internet bulletin boards are filled with caselaw, articles, commentaries, etc. as to why you see the nets, whether or not they should be there, and/or what can or should be done with them.

If you've got a couple hundred hours of free time, you can find a million and one (well-reasoned and non-well-reasoned) answers to the questions you've asked. LOL

[TheOne]

but really you gots to think.thats the main reason the population is growing smaller amd smaller each year. and i really think its BS. that people run nets out like that.seriously thought.you must understand the point im trying to make.i hope you do.i just think the whole net thing should stop.cause its killing the fish.and its not right.even if it for comercil use.i just still dont think its right.but there are reasons people do those types of things.if its getting the suckers out i dont really care.cause suckers mean nothing to me.all though its fun to fish for them wen theres nothing eles.

[A9]

but really you gots to think.thats the main reason the population is growing smaller amd smaller each year. and i really think its BS. that people run nets out like that.seriously thought.you must understand the point im trying to make.i hope you do.i just think the whole net thing should stop.cause its killing the fish.and its not right.even if it for comercil use.i just still dont think its right.but there are reasons people do those types of things.if its getting the suckers out i dont really care.cause suckers mean nothing to me.all though its fun to fish for them wen theres nothing eles.

Humans and greed might be the main reason....
Nets are a problem, but not the entire problem.

[shawn]

The One check out this link here is.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boldt_Decision

[Dave]

Basically the species is over fished by commercial netters who are legally harvesting millions if not billions of pounds of salmon nation wide every year thanks to the U.S Government who allows commercial harvest of salmon so folks can buy it in a store and so restaurants can sell it at absurd prices. It sucks for sure! If I had my way, there would be no commercial salmon fishing or it would be very limited. This goes for other species in salt water. If a person wants salmon, cod, halibut, rock fish, or whatever on the table, they should have to go out and catch it themselves with a hook and line. There would be abundant numbers of salmon and other species if commercial netters / fishers didn't take them all. Here is WA we have all these save the salmon programs. That’s great but if commercial netting was reduced and limited, we wouldn’t be worrying about saving salmon. Just my opinion.

[Shad_Eating_Grin]

Basically the species is over fished by commercial netters who are legally harvesting millions if not billions of pounds of salmon nation wide every year thanks to the U.S Government who allows commercial harvest of salmon so folks can buy it in a store and so restaurants can sell it at absurd prices. It sucks for sure! ....

Ironically, it was the commercial fishermen's interests and practices that helped bring about the Boldt decision.

Remember Senator Slade Gorton? Well, his family is the famous Gorton Fishermen. When Slade was the WA state attorney general in the early 1970s, his policies favored commercial fishermen at the expense of the tribes. Years and years of abuse and ignoring the treaty provisions. From Shawn's post above with the link to the Wikipedia article:

"The decision was the culmination of years of State of Washington limitation of treaty fishing by the Tribes, resulting in the United States suing the State of Washington to force the state to comply with the treaties."

It can be argued (reasonably) that the Boldt decision was as much a punitive retribution against the State of WA (Slade Gorton), as it was a decision regarding enforcement of treaty fishing rights.

The unfortunate thing about all this, is that we (the non-commercial fishermen) end up suffering due to the resulting tribal netting practices, which in turn resulted from the prior commercial fishermen's abuse of the resource (due to Slade et al.)

<end of rant>

[Dave]

Good info SEG,

I didn't know much about the history surrounding commercial and tribal netting but the Slade Gorton part of the puzzle is interesting.

[AdMagee]

Me sad green river KINGS AND COHO my be hard to catch this year do to nets tribes netting the hell I have heard. I dont expect to be tangling with my first river coho from the green this year anyway here is to hopeing. Gill nets suck and catch every thing in there path. I actually few years back went down to the lower green for some steelhead prospecting did actually get one steely to follow my spin n glo egg combo in to shore a goo 8 pounds or so. Went down stream a bit and saw a net half way across the river and found out it was out of season shouldnt have been there. Couple days later read a post on line that some else saw the net and removed it and it had 4 or five fish in it one was a steelhead other where salmon. That was really was discouraging for me and angering I mean not saying Tribes dont have a right to gill net or drop nets but out of season none scheduled. I mean sport fishers get the smallest portion of catch I would think and we have a lower percentage I would think of landing most the salmon we hook anyways do to barbless hook rules and such. Fish cant avoid nets to well strung out like a maze across the river. And yes there is the odd bad sport fisher wanna be who snags and or poaches fish ruining it for the rest of us. All I guess I can say is there is rules and promise that have to be followed by tribes and by sport fisher I guess its a give and take. Hope salmon runs get better in the coming years and every one get there fill. Hopin and wishin

[TheOne]

but really you gots to think.thats the main reason the population is growing smaller amd smaller each year. and i really think its BS. that people run nets out like that.seriously thought.you must understand the point im trying to make.i hope you do.i just think the whole net thing should stop.cause its killing the fish.and its not right.even if it for comercil use.i just still dont think its right.but there are reasons people do those types of things.if its getting the suckers out i dont really care.cause suckers mean nothing to me.all though its fun to fish for them wen theres nothing eles.

Humans and greed might be the main reason....
Nets are a problem, but not the entire problem.

thats true but.mabey the problem is a little bit of everything

[clam man]

This is basically a legislation issue, and as long as we keep putting the same party in office in Olympia, who is both very cozy with local tribes, and not very friendly with sportsmen we can expect no less. No election is as important as your local election. These are the laws that truly influence our day to day lives.

The fishing rights split is also in effect for crab, and you can see the results there as well. It is time to re-analyze these treaties and tribal/comercial/sportsman fishing distribution. Remember, tribal fishing is in reality commercial fishing as well for the majority of it is sold. So...as a tax paying, license buying fisherman, we are left with a very tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of "predicted" catch for each year. Seriously folks..don't just keep checking the box next to the D every election, we might get some needed change as sportsmen and in olympia.

[racfish]

NETS,POLUTION....Just about sums it up.

[A9]

NETS,POLUTION....Just about sums it up.

...That doesn't sum it up, but those are some causes....

[Shad_Eating_Grin]

...

[racfish]

Today in the Post Intelligencer there was a whole article on all the types of poison found in Puget Sound Salmon.It was scarey Sam.Those are 2 big out of many many problems .Money of course is right up with those too.The state refuses to eliminate the Sea-lions cuz they are cute.The Duwamish is gross and when low tide hits it smells really foul.Same with Everett bay area and Commencement is right there too.I say money is a problem .Why? because big industries continue to dump in these rivers despite fines they recieve.Do you think Boeing lifts an eyebrow over a 10,000.00 fine? Its chicken feed to them.(i just used Boeing as an example not to say that they are the or only culprit.)Water temps play big roles too in the decline of fish.

[A9]

Today in the Post Intelligencer there was a whole article on all the types of poison found in Puget Sound Salmon.It was scarey Sam.Those are 2 big out of many many problems .Money of course is right up with those too.The state refuses to eliminate the Sea-lions cuz they are cute.The Duwamish is gross and when low tide hits it smells really foul.Same with Everett bay area and Commencement is right there too.I say money is a problem .Why? because big industries continue to dump in these rivers despite fines they recieve.Do you think Boeing lifts an eyebrow over a 10,000.00 fine? Its chicken feed to them.(i just used Boeing as an example not to say that they are the or only culprit.)Water temps play big roles too in the decline of fish.

Oh I wouldn't doubt that the salmon in Puget Sound have a lot of toxins in them. I agree, the two problems you mentioned are big, but my point was that they weren't the whole picture. Sea lions do have a big impact, but the dams on the Columbia are a bigger problem for the salmon than sea lions.

[sickbayer]

ok well im no expert but way i see it is. It is all in the numbers. If the commercial guys get their allowance, the tribes and their nets get theirs, in between the cute sea lions also get their lunches and then throw the mighty dams in, and finally at the end of the line is us sports fishin' guys and gals trying to catch whatever is left. sigh. well thats how i think it is all going down the pan. Something has to give and right now i reckon it is the salmon. I personaly think the Commercial side has to go while we work on closing the nets. Call me stupid but since when does canning salmon to make money have anything to do with culture. I am also suprised that no one has tackled in court the right to use nets arnt we all created equal. I am all for net banning because the way i see it is, it is either affirmative action or discrimination? And i really cannot see the dams going anywhere, people need their electric. Anyways i love fishing and it really pains me to see how it is going locally and globally. E.G. I just found out 50,000 sharks a day are caught in nets. Gawd this post as put me on a downer. Come to think of it maybe this is the real reason im not catching any fish.....

[Gisteppo]

Has anyone actually lobbied against the nets, or is everyone content just griping about it?

If you want something to happen, you have to take action. The above comment about "...don't just keep checking the box next to the D every election, we might get some needed change as sportsmen and in olympia." is exactly the OPPOSITE of what needs to be done. Those with the D's are probably your best ally if you want to remove corporate and industrial fishing practices from the rivers. Those with the R's tend to be favorable to the companies, as profit+jobs=donations to campaigns.

You need to contact senators and reps. Explain to their aides that longlining and the use of commercial trollers catches plenty of fish for commercial needs, with much higher escapement numbers to protect upriver fish. They also allow for removal of living bycatch. I don't think we need to remove the rights of Tribal fishing (keep in mind that yes, it is not their heritage to catch and can, but it is one of the few income streams many tribes have and puts many tribe members to work. If they work, they don't get a government check. Only a very limited number have casinos as well, so to eliminate a job on a reservation is a BAD thing), we just need to remove their ability to use gillnets. Commercial trollers have used rigs to haul 50 hooks at a time, efficiently boating salmon, protecting bycatch, and harvesting a sustainable number.

If you want action, put together your information. Pool resources. Get a large group together and organized. Then start a campaign of calls and office visits that stretches over a month or so, making sure the sen or rep gets at least 2-3 contacts per day, every day, with the same message from different people. This is very effective, as lobbyists make good money to do exactly what you are trying to do.

E

[racfish]

Hey Sicky I couldnt agree more.It gets to a point of going to the sound fishing is more a chore then pleasure anymore.Fishing is a huge pain.Launch at 4:00 am hope you find parking less then a mile away.Leave my boat on the dock tied up while youre parking fisherpeople are ripping off your gear.Find fresh bait these days.Price of gas??? Cost of licensing...It all makes fishing a burden at times.I still go.I get skunked here and there.Or come home with a 5 lb silver.Our state is based off the money it can make depleting our wild stocks and the hatchery fish that we fisherpeople pay for.
There is no way to battle the Native nets situation.I wanted to do a reverse discrimination suit but no lawyer I talked with would handle it.My family werent even in America in those days of misstreatment to the Native Americans.Now I'm bummed like you thinking of all this.If America is truly about equalization then it should be a total package, not selectively picking groups that are above and beyond the laws.I've ranted enough for one day.Back to work and dreaming about fishing on a weekday not a Sat or Sun only....

[Rich McVey]

The dead zones aint helping things either. - http://www.king5.com/localnews/environm ... f0327.html


"Diaz and co-author Rutger Rosenberg report in Friday's edition of the journal Science that there are now more than 400 dead zones around the world, double what the United Nations reported just two years ago. "