To Many Dead Muskies

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ProAngler'sDaughter
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by ProAngler'sDaughter » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:54 pm

:nemo: I have to say I was cringing reading the post about doing away with C&R. For the past twenty to twenty-five years, muskie anglers have progressed from "catch and keep" to "catch and release" anglers. This great trend has done wonders to enhance north america's muskie fisheries. In the "old days" the average size of kept muskies was in the 34 inch range. Now due to catch and release, the average size here in the Northern areas is pushing or exceeding 40 inches! (I don't have any stats on local tigers). The "good ol' days" are NOW! Not only has the average size of our muskies increased greatly, there are more "trophy" sized muskies available and being caught by anglers. As Tigers continue to grow and thrive there will be more trophies and even legal size fish available. Most anglers don't turn back a trophy fish (if they do...they're crazy!!), and probably most Tiger fisherman don't put back the legal ones. That may change as they get bigger, but...

I guess I don't understand the difference or the rationale between releasing a fish you catch for sport or releasing a fish you accidentally catch, because it's not the species you meant to hook. :scratch:

In general, I don't really think you can go wrong if you're a responsible angler. There's nothing wrong with catching a fish to eat, as long as you're going to eat it and not waste it. There's also nothing wrong with catching fish for sport. And there's certainly nothing wrong with RESPONSIBILY returning a fish to their natural habitat if you do it properly. If there was no C&R, there ultimately would be no fish; at least for many species. That's not to say that there won't be dead fish that turn up. That's the natural order of things, some creatures will die so that others can live. I can't imagine any responsible angler returning a mamed or bleeding fish to the water, even if they are alive, but under regulation. It's called using your common sense!!!

I was "involved" with the C&R programs in the early days. Gil & my dad were rebels in those days, but they believed in the ideal of developing strong fisheries and the philosophies that have continued to thrive through Muskies Inc and other organized Muskie groups. Since an active effort towards C&R started over 20 years ago and it's still going strong today; something is working. I truly believe if Muskie anglers didn't subscribe to this basic tenet, many of the Muskie habitats would be devoid of quality fish and water environments would be weakened.

To each his own; but it might be interesting if we step outside our box and consider other perspectives now and again.

C&R Supporter!

PAD :fish:
Last edited by Anonymous on Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kevinb
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by kevinb » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:18 pm

Back on track

Sounds like we need to learn/teach proper handling techniques for muskies.
Oh, and poachers suck!!!!

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Kenster
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by Kenster » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:47 pm

racfish wrote:First off this is my last post on this subject.Kenster wrote about maggots and worms OMG.Are they endangered? I think not.that was a stupid comparison.I keep crappie and bass and I eat them if the size is right.Ive been fishing since I was 5 yo and I'm 54 now Junior!!!!I caught my first steelie at 7 yo and have the old Brownie print of it.Good for you never keeping or trying to eat one.Thats your choice.I love the taste of fresh grilled,poached or fried bass perch,or crappie.I love and I eat fish 3-4 days a week.Thats a beauty part of living 50 yards off a lake.The ability to eat and catch fresh dinner.If I had to eat what I caught only I wouldnt be a Weight Watchers now.Id weigh 90 lbs.I fished Muskie and Pike in northern East Coast Canada some years ago.Tough luck boys but I ate them.Wed fish the frozen rivers and lakes in northern Ontario and Quebec.
We all have different styles of fishing.We all have our own ideas and thoughts on what we do in life.That is the beauty of living in America.Its called CHOICE.Thank g-d we have the right to make choices.Peace out to all.Have a wonderful weekend.
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Don Wittenberger
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by Don Wittenberger » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:08 pm

It seems to me this thread has turned into a discussion about judging others by our own values. I'm against that. Human nature being what it is, no one likes being criticized for doing something they have a right to do. You absolutely won't go wrong if you live by the credo stated in the last paragraph of KUP's comment above.

Context is important. Our friend "racfish" says he ate muskies and pike he caught in Ontario and Quebec. They're more plentiful there; and if it's legal and doesn't hurt the fishing, why would anyone care? On the other hand, here in Washington we have very few muskies, so we need C&R to sustain our sport. If a Canadian angler fishes here, we expect him to respect our local rules. But we shouldn't try to apply our rules to what he does in his home waters where circumstances are different.

My comment here is not intended to be a grandiose plea for world peace, universal love, or to promote Buddhism. All I'm saying is let's try not to get carried away with visceral feelings. Gut reactions aren't always trustworthy. Facts and reason are the better way to go.
Last edited by Anonymous on Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Rosann G
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by Rosann G » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:57 pm

Great post Don.
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kevinb
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by kevinb » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:01 pm

Great posts,I'm hoping that we can get this back on track.
racfish pm'ed me. He and I both have different views of C&R fishing. However,I was wrong to jump on him.He is entitled to his opinion. I personally believe we have more common ground then conflicting ideals. If this thread continues to be a bashing,I'll force you at gunpoint and make you fish carp with me.
With that being said,lets get back on track.

We need to teach/learn the proper handling techniques of muskies.

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kevinb
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by kevinb » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:10 pm

Deadeyemark wrote:Folks,
Just a short note concerning proper handling of your fish. I know it's tuff sometimes to get a lure and hooks out of a fish's mouth and the net. I try to do this while keeping the fish's head under water. A good rule of thumb for the fish's time out of the water is as long as you can hold 'your' breath.
Many of us have found quite a few dead muskies this year at Lk Tapps. Some are decayed enough that it's not easy to see why they died. A few have been found with knife cuts on them.
I have spoken with two Chapter 57 members lately that have witnessed two men bowfishing for carp supposedly. Two men were seen bowfishing on Lk Tapps and when confronted and their boat numbers written down they took off in a hurry and took their boat out of the lake via the private launch south of Bankers Island. There are carp in Lk Tapps. That's why the muskies were stocked to begin with. Why then, did this duo scramble to get off the water??? This Chapter 57 member had just seen a musky at the location of the bowfishermen. He then approached them and asked them about their intentions. They studdered for the proper response.
Another Chapter 57 member witnessed two bowfishermen spotlighting while supposedly bowfishing carp at Mayfield Lk. They to were witnessed in the immediate vicinity of a spot a couple muskies had been seen laying earlier in the evening. THERE ARE NO CARP IN MAYFIELD LAKE. They were witnessed shooting at something in the water but denied shooting at muskies when confronted by the Chapter 57 member. They could not even match their answers between themselves.
Folks, I hate to say it but I've got a very bad feeling about this. If any of you see anything suspicious like this, please write down their boat numbers. Take a picture better yet. If you witness an actual violation, call 911. This is a crime in progress and should be reported on a 911 call just like any other crime. The police will take your info and pass it along to the WDFW enforcement. I have done this myself twice so I know it works.
I really do not understand the animosity of some people toward the musky. Their own ignorance is their own worst enemy. These fish are helping the fishery besides providing us with another game fish to pursue. The kokanee fishery has exploded in Merwin. The carp populations is being reduced in Tapps which is greatly improving the bass fishery. The trout and largemouth bass fishery has improved in Curlew. I'm sure the other musky stocked lakes have shown impovement also, I just don't have the data in front of me.
We're all fishermen. Maybe we fish for different fish but we're still all fishermen and need to stick together. Destroying each other's game is certainly no means to improving anything.
I'm hoping my pic will get posted under this blog. My partner and I found this dead musky while fishing Tapps last Sunday. No obvious cause of death. Just a reminder that this is a fragile fishery and we need to take good care of it.
Thanx for reading.

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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by kevinb » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:11 pm

kevinb wrote:Deadeye's pic
Image

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Marc Martyn
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by Marc Martyn » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:17 pm

Don Wittenberger wrote:
My comment here is not intended to be a grandiose plea for world peace, universal love, or to promote Buddhism.
Don, you have a great way of putting your point across.

The civil polite discussion on this post, sets this website aside from many other sites. Great comments.

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Deadeyemark
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by Deadeyemark » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:13 pm

Now that this post is back on track I'd like to add this: I ran into two musky/bass fishermen @ Mayfield Friday evening that found a dead musky with it's belly cut open by what they perceived as a "knife" cut. This is of Grave concern of mine..
Did anyone read JSanders post near the beginning of this long winded thread? It was about a gill cut and belly slashed dead musky. That's what this post is about.
It doesn't matter to me what you fish for, we are all fishermen and need to protect our game and stick together.
I call a spade a spade and a poacher is a poacher, period.
YB, I've bowfished for carp plenty over the years but I've never spot lighted carp. To my knowledge they hang a little deeper after dark and are very spooky when hit with a light but on the other hand, muskies would be easy to spot light and don't spook from boats anyway. Were those folks poaching muskies? Hell if I know but why did they run when they're boat numbers were written down if they were doing everything legal?
Some post release mortality is going to happen with any fish but why don't we find dead bass all over the shorelines? More folks are catching/releasing bass than muskies. Are the bass eating all the crappie? Of course not. Are the muskies eating all the bass? Of course not but some people's mentality is screwing up my game and their own also in the long run.
Poaching is poaching whether you get caught or not.
You are who you are when no one is looking!!!
Last edited by Anonymous on Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by muskyhunter » Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:57 pm

Very well said Deadeye...thanks for grounding this whole thread.
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by YellowBear » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:48 am

We all seem to feel the same when it comes to poaching.
I guess that's a start.
I have the number on my phone (877) 933-9847 and if I see poaching going on I report it then and there.
I think the WDFW enforcement guys can use all the help they can get.
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racfish
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by racfish » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:34 am

After reading my initial posts a few times this AM,I see why everyone was jumping down my throat.I still do not like the sport of C&R but only for endangered fish.Or fish with high mortality rates.I didnt mean to say that bass should all be caught but then there isnt a shortage of bass.Take salmon for a example.Runs are small ,some runs arent even fishable this season.Those are the fish that should be totally un harrassed.As far as pike and or muskie I dont really follow the fishing on none native species to our area.Im not a good typer and I find it hard to type my exact feelings.Everyone C&R a lil bit .I do to.I try not to go for fish that we know are struggling to survive.As far as non indiginous fish in our waters thats another story alltogether.Sorry to start such a comotion and Now learned to keep my opinions to myself.Good luck to all.Tight lines always.I also want to say sorry for using a poor choice on wording,and letting my temper flare.
When youre up to your rear end in alligators,its hard to remember that the initial plan was to drain the swamp.

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muskyhunter28
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by muskyhunter28 » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:54 am

The Good News is, I have not seen any Dead Muskies on Merwin this year!!!


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ProAngler'sDaughter
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by ProAngler'sDaughter » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:39 am

:nemo: Points taken. Really appreciate Deadeye getting things back on track. Poaching is horrific, but even worse is why would someone cut a fish and leave them to die...just for the sport of it??? Ugh!! Those with this nasty behavior will get theirs!!!

Thanks for the apology and perspective racfish. As you can see C&R and fishing for our muskies is a sensitive issue. We just want to keep the sport flourishing. I've fished in Ontario, MN and Wisconsin where muskies are more plentiful, but I believe that's because C&R has been in place for so long. However, that doesn't mean that trophy or legal fish aren't kept there, they are...I remember having one now and then for a shore lunch. For many anglers C&R has become second nature, for some they do it now and then, others are more prone to keeping their legal fish. It's all in the sport of fishing and different people have different practices and ideals. That doesn't mean we can't learn from each others perspectives. But that doesn't mean we have to shove our opinions down each others throats either. I agree, KUP has the perfect motto and we could all benefit if we practiced it.

Bottom line, if you're a responsible angler no matter what the species you are tracking, we wouldn't be reading posts where dead fish (muskies) are lying on the banks cut open. Of course, we'd find the typical dead fish, as with any species that will show up now and then. But to be poaching and unncessarily killing fish is just plain unacceptable. Be on the look out!

PAD :fish:

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Don Wittenberger
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by Don Wittenberger » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:32 am

If someone is taking a knife to tiger muskies, that isn't poaching, it's extermination. In my conversations with WDFW personnel over the last couple years, I've become aware that some people don't like tiger muskies and don't want 'em around, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone is deliberately killing them. I've been expecting that. It's the reverse of illegal stocking: Illegal eradication.

If that's going on, our best defense against it is public education to clear up misconceptions about the fish, because anyone who would do something like this probably is acting on misinformation that leads to fear the tiger muskies will have some sort of imagined adverse impact. It's awfully hard to catch someone in the act, and it's a lot easier (and better) to prevent it in the first place by attacking the myths some people believe about these fish.

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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by Brianh » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:42 pm

Deadeyemark wrote:Now that this post is back on track I'd like to add this: I ran into two musky/bass fishermen @ Mayfield Friday evening that found a dead musky with it's belly cut open by what they perceived as a "knife" cut. This is of Grave concern of mine..
Did anyone read JSanders post near the beginning of this long winded thread? It was about a gill cut and belly slashed dead musky. That's what this post is about.
It doesn't matter to me what you fish for, we are all fishermen and need to protect our game and stick together.
I call a spade a spade and a poacher is a poacher, period.
YB, I've bowfished for carp plenty over the years but I've never spot lighted carp. To my knowledge they hang a little deeper after dark and are very spooky when hit with a light but on the other hand, muskies would be easy to spot light and don't spook from boats anyway. Were those folks poaching muskies? Hell if I know but why did they run when they're boat numbers were written down if they were doing everything legal?
Some post release mortality is going to happen with any fish but why don't we find dead bass all over the shorelines? More folks are catching/releasing bass than muskies. Are the bass eating all the crappie? Of course not. Are the muskies eating all the bass? Of course not but some people's mentality is screwing up my game and their own also in the long run.
Poaching is poaching whether you get caught or not.
You are who you are when no one is looking!!!
We found a dead Tiger Musky on Mayfield that had it's belly sliced in summer of 07. It was probably close to 20 lbs. We were not sure why, wondering if some misinformed ethnic culture was looking for eggs. Could never figure it out. I wonder if it was in the same general area. Might have been some of the trout anglers that are sometimes camped out by the old hatchery, and area we now call "Redneck Beach"........ They thoguht the no wake buoy was a no fishing bouy and were throwing rocks at us and trying to cast at us.......L-O-S.....LOL
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racfish
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by racfish » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:14 pm

They want the Roe.In some peoples life the Roe is worth 10x what the fish is worth.You can make Boutargue with it Im sure.
When youre up to your rear end in alligators,its hard to remember that the initial plan was to drain the swamp.

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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by muskyhunter » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:17 pm

racfish..you sure about the roe thing? You may want to do your own investigating on that one...
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RE:To Many Dead Muskies

Post by Rollin with Rolland » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:28 pm

muskyhunter wrote:racfish..you sure about the roe thing? You may want to do your own investigating on that one...

yep, sounds logical, but i thought it was pretty tough to get roe from tigers!! (i suppose some unknowing poacher might try)
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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