Silver Lake, Spokane County.

[crappie007]

Since the introduction of tiger muskies to Silver lake.
Does anyone know, has there been any REPORTED findings about any
BENIFIT to other fish populatins IE: trout,perch,bluegill, bass or
crappie?

[Don Wittenberger]

The only way to know is if "before" and "after" surveys were done. Call WDFW to find out. If you talk to anglers who regularly fish Silver Lake, their subjective impressions might give you clues. These anglers usually have a pretty good "feel" for how a fishery is doing compared to years past.

When Sprague Lake was rotenoned last month, tons of stunted crappie were killed, and no good-sized ones were found. Sprague had plenty of walleyes, but they apparently were feeding on the lake's abundant crayfish. In any case, they didn't keep the crappie population in check. So, even with a predator present, some other factor may affect the panfish fishery in an unexpected way.

The University of Minnesota has studied the impact of muskie predation on other species. In general, they concluded muskies exist in too low numbers to affect other species. Practical experience bears this out. Many midwest muskie lakes also have large populations of walleyes, bass, panfish, etc. In May and June, it's not uncommon to see fishermen catching limits of big slab crappies from northern Wisconsin's top muskie lakes. This type of anecdotal evidence certainly indicates muskies do not hurt other fisheries, and may even enhance them by helping prevent overpopulation.

Another thing to keep in mind is that WDFW keeps the stocking numbers low, in part so they won't become too dominant.

I know this information isn't specific to Silver Lake, but that's the best answer I can give you.

[crappie007]

Thank you Don your information was helpful.

[kevinb]

I don't know how this lake was prior to tigers but I was here about 2 months ago. Wow!!! big bass in here,thats for sure.

[YellowBear]

crappie007.
For what its worth, I know several guys in Spokane that have been fishing Silver most of there lives and they tell me the numbers of big fish (Bass and Crappie) are down. This could be from folks keeping the bigger ones but it also could be that they have become a prey item for a larger predator. Newman lake is another example, big Bass 7 and 8 pounders used to be common but it has been sometime now since I have heard of a Bass that size out of there.

[kevinb]

I wonder what this lake must have been like prior to the evil tiger muskie's introduction.
Odd though,I went through the reports of this lake.It would seem that tigers,bass,crappie are doing very well.
When I was out here,all I could catch was bass,my buddy caught around 30 crappie. The tiger muskie has been in here for awhile now.If it was going to put a strain on the system,it would have done it by now. These fish co-exhist quite well.

http://washingtonlakes.com/ReportList.aspx?id=16

[muskyhunter]

I agree with YB's comment on some folks keeping the bigger fish. I really think the only larger predator on the water is MAN.When me and kevinb were out there we did catch a great variety of fish. Though we never landed a Tiger we did see quite a few. We did catch a bunch of bass (kevinb) we also saw a very healthy smallie parked up under a dock. A bucket load of crappies (all of which were released) note though..all the crappies were under the 9 inch limit. That size limit may in fact help that fishery. The gills were also numerous but small.
I again, think it is over fishing that desimates the fisheries. When fishermen/women can learn to only take what they need and not be glutanous. And take what is legal then, and only then will the fishing will become prosperous for all.

[YellowBear]

If I may ask, what size were the Bass that you guys caught out of Silver?

How would the nine inch limit on the Crappie help the fishery?

[Don Wittenberger]

YB, crappie are a fine eating fish (as I'm sure you know) but cleaning little ones is a lot of trouble for the amount of meat you get. I don't know about you, but I'd rather catch big ones. I suspect most other folks would, too.

The idea behind any minimum size regulation is always to give the fish a chance to grow bigger. But this logic doesn't apply to lakes incapable of growing crappies larger than 9 inches, and we have such lakes. Therefore, WDFW applies the 9-inch minimum size selectively, depending on the growth potential of crappies in individual lakes. This seems like a very sensible policy to me.

[muskyhunter]

I see that the WDFW is going to be building a new ramp and a fishing dock out there. Thats awesome...a lake that is in need of a new launch and dock. Way to go. See the WDFW does do some good!! Hey YB go back in the report archives and read them. We listed what we did out there...

[crappie007]

crappie007.
For what its worth, I know several guys in Spokane that have been fishing Silver most of there lives and they tell me the numbers of big fish (Bass and Crappie) are down. This could be from folks keeping the bigger ones but it also could be that they have become a prey item for a larger predator. Newman lake is another example, big Bass 7 and 8 pounders used to be common but it has been sometime now since I have heard of a Bass that size out of there.

YB--I too have noticed the decline in size in crappie and perch. I use to catch 10"
blue gill there and now I cant find any at all. I cant speak for the bass as I no longer fish for them. Silver use to be my favorite best producing spiny ray lake.
Since the introduction of tigers I've had to go else where to fing my spiny rays.
I try to be optimistic and have faith that WDFW. made the right choice. But each year
I get the same results --small fish.
Ofcourse there are those that will argue that I'm just not that good of a fisherman.

[Riverman]

Keep in mind that all lakes go in cycles. I have a lake near me in eastern Oregon that has literally a trillion bass, crappie, and perch in it. Some years the crappie will be quite large and then we will go through 3-5 years where they are all really small. I have always attributed the change in size to harvest, when people take a bunch of fish out of the lake the remaining fish will get bigger.

It could be that the fish in Silver are small because there are too many of them. I would seriously doubt that the number of tigers in that lake could be eating "all" the larger crappie and gills. When I was at Silver a month or so ago, there was a group of eldery folks right at the boat ramp fishing from lawn chairs and they were yarding out gills and crappie and fast as they could get their lines in the water. A female crappie may have more than 300,000 eggs in her...you don't need many of these to have a bunch of fish! My guess is that there are thousands of crappie and gills in that lake. We also saw one very large bass........looked to be over 5# when it followed my glide bait up to the boat.

RM

White Crappie:

Fecundity: Morgan (1954) reported fecundity, indicated by ovarian egg counts, markedly varied with size of female; 149 mm TL individual producing about 1,900 eggs, while a 330 mm TL fish produced 325,677 eggs. Fertilized eggs are adhesive, demersal, averaging 0.90 mm in diameter (Hansen 1943). Eggs hatch in 42 hours at water temperature of 22.8 degrees C and in 93 hours at 14.4 degrees C. Larvae remain in nest area until 4.1-4.6 mm TL, this length usually reached between 2.1-6.8 days (Siefert 1968).

[Deadeyemark]

YB,
The WDFW stomach contents studies that have been done over the years have only produced one "1" spiny ray fish in a musky's stomach. It was a tiny largemouth in a yearling musky's stomach. No spiny rays have been found in any adult musky's stomachs according to the data collected by the WDFW. I figure this is a learned trait for the musky. Spiny ray fish are probably troublesome to ingest.
You stated that 7 and 8 lb bass were common in Newman Lk. prior to the introduction of muskies. Common is a relative term but in my experience fishing bass in WA for over 20 years there are no lakes that routinely produce 7-8 lb bass. There are many that produce a couple of that size from time to time.
Being from northern WI and growing up with all species of warmwater fish, muskies included, the best trophy musky lakes were also the top producers of big walleyes and big bass. It would seem that survival of the fittest would create a bigger and better fishery. This holds true in many lakes that have muskies in them.

[crappie007]

I always try to keep up on the happenings at the lakes I fish.
My thoughts of smaller fish still lean towards the introduction of muskies.
I havent caught a trout out of silver in five years , yet I've caught them out
of every other lake I've been too and caught them frequently out of silver before
the introduction of muskies. Its been 6 years now and I dont see any improvements
on spiny rays or the trout population. I have only witnessed a decline in what was once a awesome fishery. However the muskies are large and look very healthy.
I'm mindful of lake cycles, seasons etc. Keep in mind 6 years ago the crappie I caught wern't bigger than 10"s and true they can still be found that size till this day .Just fewer of them. On the other hand I dont see any more 13" perch or 10" gills or trout of any size.
I've caught a tiger muskie once at newman and what a beautiful fish it was. C&R ofcourse! My thoughts when tigers were introduced were optimistic. I thought to myself woo-hoo tigers will clean out the stunted crappie population making way for slab crappies to grow and grow. A trophy! Score!!!
But I havent seen any positive growth results towards any of types of fish yet. Ofcourse for all I know there could be a parasite causing problems, loss of habitat, poor food supply, or maybe I lost my fishing touch there, etc. Until someone can convince me otherwise through factual studies, I'll stick
with my muskie theory. If in the future I'm proven wrong I will offer no apologies.
I will however have learned somthing new and that helps me become a better person always.

[muskie guy]

WATER QUALITY. That is the major reason people who fished Newman aren't seeing the fish they have in years past. This lake is taking a major nose dive and the locals know it. There is alot of talk among them, they want the state to get involved in a clean-up effort. And the massive pressure this lake gets during the summer isn't exaclty conducive to fishing success. The state stopped stocking trout because of the poor water quality, so they are obviously aware. The bass and pan fish in Newman are self sustaining but the poor quality of their environment effect every step of the process. The effects will eventually hit the tiger's too. They will shift forage base to take advantage of which ever species is maintaining it's numbers. The carp and bullheads are already a natural prey item and they thrive in the poor quality of water Newman is becoming. The bass and pan fish are going to need help through proper regulation and management for improved water quality. Then the trout can go back in too.
Silver lake has been declining as well. It's becoming a weed choked mess. The whole South end is a salad bowl as most know. Again, same as Newman lake, there has been no action taken to improve water quality or reduce the removal of lake water by the residents. They can't keep dumping lawn fertilizer into these lakes and expect them to be pristine.
The fishing at Silver lake is excellent. You can't do the same old thing every time you go out though. If you want to catch a trout you need to change your presentation to best suit the time of day the trout are active, and you need to understand their daily movements for this time of year. In a fact, that's what you need to do for any species of fish on any lake. The fish aren't in the same area they were 2 weeks after ice out, so don't wet a line there.
The owner of Granny's Bait says it's the best fishing she's ever seem out there now. She's been there for about 10 years.
You have to change your tactics to match the changes the fish are making because of weather, boating pressure, forage movements and all that jazz. I think putting all these pieces together properly is the funnest part of muskie fishing. You've got to be updating your technique and patterns constantly.

[Lucius]

To add to what deadeye and muskie guy are saying, I don't believe there is a large enough population of Tiger Muskie to even do any damage to any of the other species in any given lake. A good population of Tiger Muskie on a big lake is 700-1000 fish or 1 fish for every 2 acres. To top if off the Tiger Muskie are sterile so there population will never become out of control.

Take for example 11 mile reservoir (colorado reservoir, I am from colorado). This lake has Northern Pike (direct parent of Tiger Muskie) and Trout both very health populations. Northern Pike, the ferocious, species decimating fish of our time that can reproduce faster that rabbits (some people believe) and trout, the soft fin, delicate fish that no Esox can resist, are coexisting in the same lake and each year there are numerous trophy sized fish of both species that are pulled from the lake.

http://www.11milesports.com/
check out the photo galleries over the past few years

I believe that Tiger Muskie are opportunistic feeders so they will feed on any prey that presents itself, including their own species. I don't believe they are out hunting down all the crappie or bluegill or bass because they can. I am going to have to agree with muskie guy on this one and say that it is man that are causing the problems whether it be over harvesting or not taking care of the water.

On a side note, I did see a large mouth bass (about 4-5 lbs or so) with a 9-10" sun fish in its mouth that had choked to death a few years back.

Practice C-P-R

[muskyhunter]

Hey Lucius,
I went and checked out that website. Boy...sure looks like that Esox population is having an ill effect on that trout population...jk, jk...MAN is the main dominate predator of any fish species.PERIOD! Nice reporting guys on all these last threads.

[Riverman]

I have only been to silver lake one time and fished the entire perimeter of the lake over a period of 3 days. The lake doesn't at all look like a trout fishery to me. Tons of weeds in coming in everywhere and that was a month ago, can only imagine what it looks like now. I also noticed a great number of homes/cabins with a irrigation pump leading down to the lake. It is really too bad that water is coming out of the lake so that folks can have a pretty lawn. I have always found it odd how people move to the "lake and woods" and then put in a lawn that looks like the city! The habitat loss along the shoreline is not good either with many folks removing virtually all vegetation right up to the water's edge.

If the crappie and bluegill are small, it generally suggests there is some kind of a food problem, either the lake isn't productive enough or there are too many mouths to feed. Another thing that can cause fish to stunt is turbid waters (they visually cannot find food) or a short growing period (cold water temps). I don't think either of these apply on Silver Lake. Silver looks very productive to me, and I wouldn't be suprised if water temps in Silver reach or exceed those tolerable by salmonids. Of course there may be some spring seep areas in the lake that provide santuary for trout during the warmest of months. My armchair assumption would be if you want to see the crappie and gills get bigger, start keeping every single gill/crappie you catch regardless of size and/or increase the number of pisciverous predators.

RM

[crappie007]

The crappie have size restrictions. Besides that I release all small fish regardless
if the lake is over populated with them. Silver use to have really nice rainbows, I just dont see them anymore. Thankfully since I live in spokane there are other lakes that hold 12" perch and Crappie. The bummer is silver was the only place I could find fat, hard fighting 10" gills around spokane. Anyhow part of fishing for me isnt tying myself down to one lake , so I have many options.

[Riverman]

Yes, you are lucky to be surrounded by all those wonderful lakes! I was raised in Walla Walla and my dad used to take me up to Sacheen lake, I loved it! I caught some very large brook trout in that lake as a kid and some huge perch too. I used to use perch gill to fish for both the trout and perch, it worked very well. I wouldn't mind living in Spokane except I would miss the Columbia River and the salmon and steelhead. Here I fish for steelhead all winter, keeps the blues away.

RM