2009 Stocking & Other Miscellaneous Info

[kevinb]

I must have missed it somewhere. Where was it implied that pike and muskies are warmwater species? Not trying to be a smart@$$. Seriously,did I miss it?
If they were considered warmwater species. Does that have any effect on their(s) or other fisheries?


In regards to pike in the Pend Oreille River. They've been their for at least 20 years(considering Idaho has had them since the early '70's) All reports thus far have stated its a very healthy river system. With anglers catching large numbers of all species. If the state plans on sending boat brigades to kill off the pike. I'm sure it will put a nice dent in the population but won't get rid of them all together. They could poison the system but remember that crap will be flowing into the Columbia.
I personally feel that the pike is here to stay,if they do get rid of them,I'll just have to drive a little further to CD'A.
And yes,I've heard the argument that pike and muskies are non-native species.So are all spiny rays...walleyes etc.
I just hope the state does a little more research before they destroy an amazing fishery.

[Gone Fishin]

Well from what I have heard the biologist think that the pike really made their way in within the last 10 years. I do agree with Kevin that they should not try to get rid of such a unique fishery! I have just been fishing it this year and have fallen in love with that river! I am headed up there today and tomorrow! I haven't found another body of water nearby where I can consistently pull out the numbers of quality bass that I catch up there. Who wouldn't love a place where they can catch 3-6lb bass all day long! Dozens of them! On top of that is an amazing pike fishery, the only in the state! (Long lake is not a pike fishery, its an every now and then one gets caught fishery) People can hate them all they want but they are WAY too much fun to fish for and even taste amazing! If WDFW did get some crazy idea to try killing them I will move to Idaho and fish them there where they embrace the fishery for what it is!

[Don Wittenberger]

Yellow Bear, thanks for that info. Please understand that I want to focus strictly on tiger muskies. I know it works on pike, but I've always believed muskies won't touch dead bait. Lately I've been hearing some things to the contrary, so maybe that's another one of those hoary old Wisconsin myths that are falling like leaves in this new, more scientific, less superstitious age. All I'm doing is attempting to separate fact from myth where tiger muskies are concerned, to help us all understand whether there's a problem that needs to be addressed in the interest of better fishing for all of us.

As for leeches, that's outside my jurisdiction, but just so I correctly understand your position on leeches, it sounds like you're asking WDFW to spend money to set up a leech testing facility, is that correct?

It seems obvious there are only three options: (1) continue allowing the unregulated sale of untested leeches, (2) ban leeches, or (3) test and regulate all leeches imported into Washington. As the first option won't satisfy WDFW or protect our vulnerable fisheries, that leaves you with a choice between the last two. Obviously, the third approach works best if you attack the problem at the supplier level, i.e., limit the number of suppliers, require testing and certification of their leeches before they come into the state, then test them again, and license and regulate the resellers so you don't have fly-by-night operators bringing in bootleg leeches.

Equally obviously, it's easier and cheaper for WDFW to simply ban them, so that's what they'll do unless someone comes up with a rock-solid, foolproof, workable plan to sell safe leeches in Washington. Well, this is America, and that's what our entrepreneurs do best! When I see a good plan, I'll be happy to support it, as I said, for whatever my meager influence is worth.

[Don Wittenberger]

I'd been wondering where Evergreen's tiger muskies went to. The last 2 or 3 times I was there, I didn't see a single one.

At 235 surface acres, and assuming a density of between .25 and .5 fish per acre, Evergreen is capable of supportinga population of roughly 60 to 120 tiger muskies. Two guys could clean them out in a month if they're killing them. That's why we need the 50-inch regulation, and also need to make everyone stop using fishing techniques that kill the fish. Otherwise, no one will catch anything, because there won't be anything to catch.

[YellowBear]

Evening Don,
What I was trying to point out about the Leech's is the fact that if we are allready testing for VHS in the Muskie, then how hard could it be to test the Leech's?
When this question was asked, WDFW said he was not sure we are testing.
He also said, he had no idea of were to have the Leech's tested.
This seems a bit weird to me is all.
Like I said before, I could care less.
I have used them for Walleye but everything in the lake will hit them.
There kind of strange to use but you do get used to them.
A night Crawler or a Crawdad tail will work as well.

I guess what it boils down to Don, is that we fish for differant reasons.
I was brought up to eat what I catch, I still enjoy a good fish dinner now and then and I am very selective on what I keep.
When I fish to keep I like to use bait, I enjoy kicking back and watching a float.
If we ban bait for Muskie, then it won't be long before it's all banned.

Now I know someone is going to chime in and say, If you want to eat fish, then go buy it.
This might work for some folks but no store bought fish is as good as fresh.

[Don Wittenberger]

YB, the tiger muskies are a different fishery with unique needs, and no one is suggesting that tiger muskie regulations should be applied to other species. I'll be seeing Steve Jackson of WDFW later this week, and if I get a chance, I'll ask him about leech testing and what can be done about leeches. As for eating fish, I like to eat them too, and WDFW wants all of us to go out and catch, kill, and eat smallmouth bass to our heart's content. They're overrunning our waters, they're fun to catch, and they taste pretty good. What makes sense to me is eating the abundant species and releasing the trophy species so we can continue to enjoy the sport of catching them.

[YellowBear]

Don,
would you ask Mr Jackson if they are ever going to get around to working on the panfish problem.
I know he is going to say there is no problem but 4 to 6 inch Perch and 8 to 10 inch Crappie indicates that there is something wrong. I have heard that Washington lakes are not capable of growing large panfish but they used to be. If something has changed we need to find out what and why. Over harvest is not an exceptable excuse.

I would like to think that if there is a ban on using bait for Tigers that it would not involve anything else.

[Don Wittenberger]

"I would like to think that if there is a ban on using bait for Tigers that it would not involve anything else."

That's correct.

WDFW biologist Steve Caromile did a presentation on crappie at last week's IFPAG meeting and here's what my notes indicate. Crappie are non-native west of the Rockies. A 2-year-old crappie is about 8 or 9 inches. Although crappie potentially can live 6 or 7 years and reach lengths of 14 to 15 inches, they eat zooplankton only up to 8 inches, and Caromile said "we don't have a [prey] species for 9-inch crappie to eat in most of our lakes." In other words, a critical part of the food chain is missing, so they stop growing at age 2. Steve Jackson said you can identify the lakes with larger crappie by looking for a 9-inch minimum size regulation, because "we wouldn't put that regulation on a lake that doesn't grow 9-inch crappie." Caromile suggested that anglers seeking big crappie could go to Brownlee Reservoir, a large impoundment on the Snake River on the Oregon-Idaho border, which has the biggest crappie in the Pacific Northwest.

[muskyhunter]

I really hope that you 2 guys asked the guys from the WDFW if you can continue to throw there names out there...hopefully you have THEIR PERMISSION..!? Just sayin...!! Actually now a couple more I have been noticing now in the forums..I did it once and that was enough for me.I learned. I know I would not want my name thrown out there if I was not asked first..just saying!!
And by the way this is a Tiger Musky forum, take your crappie business to the crappie forum. Thats crappy...I think I crappied my pants..he he

[YellowBear]

Thanks for that info Don.
As Washington lakes at one time grew large Crappie, 17 and 18 inchers were common.
I knew there was something missing.

Muskyhunter,
As all of the fish are part of the same echo system you might keep in mind that what effects the Crappie will effect the Tigers. Big fish eat little fish. If there are no little fish, big fish will not survive. You will have much more success for any trophy if you understand its prey.

[muskyhunter]

No crap!! I understand the whole concept. I've been fishing and studying fish for 30 years. Don't talk to me like I'm some dumb ass kid. What pisses me off is a couple of you seem to think ya'll are freegin geniuses. And like to talk down to the rest of us. I've watched you and the other guy here battle over crap we all know. You YB just seem to like to piss n' moan about everything. I don't think YOU see the whole picture here. Just look back at all your last entries.You seem to be against everything that doesn't suit your individual needs. Maybe you need to go study the echo system (spelled ecosystem) yourself and come back when you can at least spell the freegin word right!! And then maybe have a beer and chill out.
AnD I do know where there are some 15-17 crappies but wont tell. So go and VHS test a freegin leech youself!!

[Rosann G]

WOW Todd, mellow out! I don't think Don or Yellowbear is talking down to anyone. I happen to want answers to alot of Yellowbear's questions too and I like reading Don's responses to his questions. They happen to be alot more literate on a lot of these things then alot of us. Maybe you have been studying this a long time but not all of us have the time or resources to, I'm glad they do. Don has a way of getting answers that most of us don't have access to and I am very happy he has the time to do it. Thank you Don! I don't just care about the Tiger muskie like you seem to! I like to fish for alot of different fish and am concerned about them all and their availablity and viability in alot of lakes in this state.
Rosann

[YellowBear]

Sorry Muskyhunter if I offended you, it was not my intention.


As I am a multi species angler I am concerned about all species not just one or two.
At one time Washington State had some of the best fishing in the country, not anymore.
We used to be the top spot for trophy fish of all kinds, not anymore.
We used to have lakes all over the State were kids could go and catch fish and get interested in the sport, not anymore.
If the fisheries of Washington State are ever going to rebound it will not be because of the WDFW, it will be because of the fisherman and women of this State. Until we ban together and support each fishery things will not get any better.
Anytime you get a chance, ask the WDFW what is being done to increase our prey base.
Ask them what is being done to enhance the fry we do get. Ask them if we are doing anything to improve spawning beds or if (other than Potholes) we are doing anything to enhance habitat.
I think you will be surprised at there answer.

[muskyhunter]

I am mellow..really. Just don't tweak me the wrong way. I'll say what I think and think what I say is real. No b.s. from me.I too fish for multi species and am concerned about the way some folks think and the way some folks fish. Taking more than they need and just being bogarts. I do not focus on only one species. I'm just passionate as a outdoorsman and as a fisherman as a man a husband, father and as a human being.
What I don't like are people who are not as they seem to be. IE.. YB..claims to support this sport..fishing. But again complains about the things that are only in HIS best interests. I've been to the Warm Water Species Foundation site. Cool pictures but really all he does is bad mouth species and as in this forum and bad mouth the WDFW. You all understand they are under some pretty tough economics times. They do the best they can. But yet some folks don't appreciate the good and totally focus on what they don't get. I guess thats the norm. But I do understand those things. And try to educate and help those who do not understand those things.
Fishing is good in this state. I definatley cannot complain..we get fish stocked.There are plenty of fish. You just have to find them. Thats part of the game. We have decent boat launches. The rules are fair. Though I wish we had more wardens to stop the knuckle heads. But me as a outdoorman can help by calling the # on the back of the parking thingy I have.
I have talked to and have a good relationship with a few folks at the WDFW so asking them the questions I need to ask isn't a problem. I talk to them often.So maybe YB you should practice what you preach. Ask them the questions you need to. You probably won't get the trillion walleyes you want. So you can eat but maybe eat just some..I know you have a very mixed, hypocritical agenda on your platter.You need to maybe separate the peas from the mashed potatos...so with that have a great day. You too Rosann.


"sin faster,God is catching up"

[Don Wittenberger]

I work very hard at not being judgmental about other people's personalities or opinions. I believe in judging ideas according to their merits, not by who the speaker is. I think vigorous exchange of opinions is a good thing. I used to let myself get tweaked the wrong way, but I swore that off when I turned fifty, when it dawned on me how short life is. I'm grateful to live in a free country where we don't have to be afraid of our own government, and don't need anyone's permission to discuss what our public servants are doing. I like fishing better than working, and I like being retired. Steve Jackson and I didn't catch a damn thing at Mayfield Lake yesterday. We didn't even see one. But we had a good time fishing together, and we had a good talk about many things.

[muskyhunter]

I agree with you Don. About not being judgemental. But I am a pretty good at spotting a B.s. er when I see one. Or a person who just yaps to yap. And doesn't have any kind of proof to back anything up. Or just a freegin whiner..I hate whiners! So like you said, life is short and I really do feel its better to let it out than it is to hold back. I can definately say I say what I feel. Or that I didn't say "gee I should have said this or that". I think before I speak. So either some folks accept me for who I am and what I stand for or they won't. Or get to know me and you'll find i'm the same in person as I am behind this keyboard. And either you'll like me or you won't..thats just me.

Sorry you didn't see any fish, shouldve' been there last week. They are there!! really!!


"sin faster, God is catching up"

[YellowBear]

Well Muskyhunter I guess you told me.
There have been times that I have not been a friend to the Tiger, that is no secret.
The reason being that accorrding to you and others there are no down sides to them.
I simply try to explain the other side of the coin.

As Rosann pointed out, some folks don,t have the time to spend looking for information that should be made public.
We all have the right to know whats going on.

You seem to have all the faith in the world in the WDFW and thats okay. Maybe I would have more faith as well if I had the # 1 man on my side as you do.

My interests as you put it are the fisheries. some folks think they are pretty good, some don't.
Some know what they used to be, some never will.

You seem to think that what I want is to be able to go out and catch a stinger of fish every time, not so.
What I want is to see some sort of progress in all species, not just one or two.
You seem to think that our stocking programs are a good thing, I think natural spawning would be better.

I think the Rainbow stocking programs are great, anyone can go out on opening day with there kids and catch fish.


We hear about the cost of operations to the WDFW on different projects and with the cost of fuel alone I agree.
Maybe we should stop sending 6 guys to the same lake in 6 different Trucks, that would be a start.

I was invited at one time to come over to the west side and join your group, I was told that it sounded as if I would fit right in. guess that offer is off the table now, right Muskyhunter?
And you call me a hypocrit.

As this is a public forum and in some cases the place for some folks to get information, I feel its only fair that they get all of the information, not just one side.

[bad esox]

Yellow Bear,

Please let me say the door is always open to anyone who wishes to attend a Muskies Inc. meeting. You have my personal invitation should you ever decide to attend one of our monthly meetings. We welcome you warmly. We welcome all fellow anglers into our Chapter.

Yes, people sometimes have differences of “opinions” and many times it takes some time until they can come to an agreement, or compromise. Sometimes it is better just to agree to disagree and gain the respect of the other party. I have read this “thread” and it does not appear to be getting any better as it continues on. I believe that you and Muskyhunter both have good intentions and that you both are speaking from the heart on a topic that you care very much about. You both have some valid points, but in the long run isn’t it really about the fish? Yes, all fish. Together we make this happen by settling our differences and working with one another. I personally have not met you Yellow Bear, but I am familiar with Muskyhunter and I think you guys may even get along if you met one another. “Forums” and “threads” sometimes can be very miss leading and can take one down the path of misunderstanding very easily.

Please do not think that any one “opinion” necessarily represents the whole group. It is true that we do have “principles and values” that we try our best to abide by and that we are passionate about this particular species of fish without a doubt. Anyone can see just exactly who WE are and what WE stand for by clicking on our web page: www.nwtigermuskies.com … Many good things have been “spawned” by Muskies Inc. since its inception back in 1966. Perhaps one of the best ideas created was the beginning of the philosophy of “Catch & Release”. This philosophy today is practiced around the world by many anglers fishing for a wide variety of species of fish.

I hope this can all be worked out. I am a true believer in “together we stand, divide we fall”.

The door is always open my friend.

[YellowBear]

I thank you for the invite bad esox.

[Riverman]

I hope the states continue to manage the new pike and muskie fisheries that are developing.

These fish are awesome!!

RM