Fly Tying Kits

[leahcim_dahc]

I am looking at learning how to tie flies. There are several "starter" kits available online that I have been looking at. I have narrowed my search down to a couple, but the one from Cabela's seems like a better setup to me. It doesn't come with a fancy vise, but does a what I think to be a decent selection of tools, materials, and references to get the job done.

For the most part, I am just looking for a decent kit to start with, and one I can take to the desert with me when I deploy. I won't feel so bad if I end up breaking or loosing anything. Mainly going to keep me busy during my down time. Once I get back home, I will be looking at getting better tools and a decent desk. But for now, something reasonable, and something I can pack up at a moments notice and haul away.

What are your opinions or thoughts regarding the pre-packaged kits? Are they really worth it? The one from cabela's looks to have a cheesy vise...but would work in a field environment. The additional tools looks to be fairly complete as far as, bobbin, hackle pliers, thread starters, finishers, etc., etc.. Is there a better kit in that same price range anyone would suggest? I checked out one from Orvis...but pretty much looked the same, except cost more.

Thanks for any input!

Cabela's Premium Kit With Tools, Jack Dennis Manual and DVD
Orvis Premium Fly-Tying Kit


Chad

[Lotech Joe]

Here is the kit I started with just over 8 years ago.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... 13804a&nav
Count=6&podId=0001059&parentId=cat20534&masterpathid=&navAction=push&cmCat=
MainCatcat20431-cat20534&catalogCode=UH&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20534&hasJS=true
Here is the tutorial I used.
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/
Go to the left hand menu and click on fly tying. Then beginning fly tying.
Good stuff! I met Al Campbell and he was a fly tier's champion. We lost him about 3 years ago, and I'll miss him. He was a wealth of information and shared everything he knew.

[HillbillyGeek]

Here is the kit I started with just over 8 years ago.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... &navCount=
6&podId=0001059&parentId=cat20534&masterpathid=&navAction=push&cmCat=
MainCatcat20431-cat20534&catalogCode=UH&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20534&hasJS=true
Here is the tutorial I used.
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/
Go to the left hand menu and click on fly tying. Then beginning fly tying.
Good stuff! I met Al Campbell and he was a fly tier's champion. We lost him about 3 years ago, and I'll miss him. He was a wealth of information and shared everything he knew.

FAOL is an excellent resource! I never had the opportunity to meet Al Campbell, but I've read a lot of his stuff. His philosophies and techniques are timeless...

[leahcim_dahc]

Yes, very good link, indeed. I found that site when googling the many things I have googled lately. Thank you! BTW, I added it to the list of resources... :-)

...

In your opinion, is it better to pickup the tools and materials separately? I found some stuff a woman was selling because her husband died. Seemed to be a decent grab...I'm just waiting to hear back as to whether it sold already.


Chad

[Marc Martyn]

Well, I looked at both of the kits and can only make a suggestion based on my experience with both Orvis and Cabela's. First, I think the vise in the Cabela's kit is a Thompson Model A vise. It isn't "cheesy" at all. I tied on that vise for decades and they hold up well. It is a little awkward at times adjusting the hook tension, but other than that it is a good beginner vise.

The materials from Cabela's and Orvis are good quality materials. When I started tying in the 70's, it was hard to find good tying materials in Spokane. Finally, I started ordering things from Orvis through their catalog. Working with good hackles, furs and tools makes a big difference.

If the kits have all the materials of the patterns in the book, that makes it a lot easier to learn. DVD's are a great help. I wish they were around when I started, instead of just books with photos in black and white. Jack Dennis's first book is the foundation of my fly tying. He has decades of experience.

Get on line and find out if there is a Cabela's and Orvis dealer near you. If there is, go into the store and look at the kit and compare them.
Personally, I don't think that you could go wrong with either.

One Big Tip:

Make sure that you keep all the furs and hackle in a good zip lock bag. Package them separately. That way, it a fly gets into one bag, it won't destroy all your furs and hackles. I don't know where you are deploying to, but being in the military it has to be a place where the bugs bit and chew anything that looks like food. They will lay eggs in the furs and hackles and in a few days you will have a cape or fur patch full of maggots. :shaking:

One other thing, make sure you have a rotary finisher instead of the spring finisher. Much easier to use.

[leahcim_dahc]

Thanks, Marc.

I looked for some Orvis "Full Line" Dealers in my area, and the closest one is in Ellensburg (if I remember correctly). Might have to make a special trip one of these weekends for that. Cabela's is down the road a bit in Lacey which would be much more convenient.

With regards to the vise in the Cabela's kit, the only reason I mentioned it might have been cheesy, was the reviews stated that particular vise had issues with soft jaws that wouldn't grip the hooks. Which I would presume could be from the awkwardness of the hook tension adjustment you mention. Could be more of an operator head space and timing issue than anything.

I did find a tool kit on the Orvis website that would be just about perfect for what I need...except the price tag. The tool kit sells for $600, which is a bit much especially for someone who doesn't have a clue what they are doing, namely me. :-)

I'll keep looking at those kits and other's and see what I can come up with.

Thanks for the information and especially the tip concerning critters getting into the furs and stuff!


Chad

[Marc Martyn]

Chad,

Buying kits sometimes can get you a lot of materials that you won't use much. Here is an alternative suggestion:

There are thousands of patterns out on the market. Actually, there are just a few that are tried and true. I would suggest getting together with a fly shop and ask them what patterns work best for the waters in your area. Then have him show you what materials will be needed for those patterns. Tally up the materials and the tools needed to tie up those flies and see what the cost difference is.

Here is a list of my common used flies:
Drys-
Adams
Renegade
Griffiths Gnat
Pale Morning Dun

Nymphs-
Pheasant nymph
Prince nymph
Wooley Bugger
Gold Rib Hares Ear
Leeches in black, olive, wine and brown
Carey Special and assorted other soft hackles
Zug Bug

Chironomids

A few emergers

Suppliers now have hackle in assorted packages with different color hackle. They are much cheaper than buying full necks when you are starting out.

I would pick ten good patterns that are good in your area. Buy the materials for them and the tools needed. You may be able to get by for a little less money.

Also, some of the sewing boxes sold in the fabric stores make good containers for fly tying materials and tools.

In dealing with a fly shop, they are not going to sell you a "cool looking" fly pattern because of it's appearance. They will steer you towards a pattern that works.

IMO, don't even think about buying a $600.00 fly tying kit. I believe that you would get a lot of materials that you would seldom use.

[banzai]

I'll second Marc's suggestion. Much of the material in a "kit" will rarely get used, and that which you will use a bunch of will be in short supply. Just up the road on HWY 99 in Kent is Puget Sound Fly Fishing Co. Anil and Clark run a first rate shop and can set you up right with good equipment, patterns and materials to tie them. Prices are fair and the help and knowledge they will provide you is well worth the visit. Here's the link: [url] http://www.pugetsoundflyco.com/index.php[url]
There was a shop in the Olympia area, Fishy Business, I think, but I have recently heard they have closed. An all too common occurrence these days for the private shops,. Sad. There may be another in Lacey but I can't remember the name.
Gene

[leahcim_dahc]

Marc,

So far my fly collection isn't all that extensive. Until I learn the waters much better I have picked up a various assortment of flies. Mostly got ideas from this site, westfly.com, a few individuals and a couple other various sources. My list is as follows:

Drys:
Adams
Parachute Adams
Black Gnat
Black Flying Ant
Elk Hair Caddis
Mosquito
Royal Coachman
Royal Wulff

Wets:
Pheasant Tail Nymph
Copper John
Zug Bug
BH Prince
Damsel
Mosquito Larvae
Midge (I think...little #14 & #16 chironomid looking things in brown and maroon)

Streamers:
Mickey Finn
Black Ghost
Woolly Bugger- black, brown, olive, BH and non-BH
Bunny Leech- olive
Egg Sucking Leech- black

Terrestrials:
Dave's Hopper
John's Hopper
Muddler Minnow
San Juan Worm

And miscellaneus other flies I can't identify, like foam beetles, spiders, poppers, etc.. More than likely picked them up on my first outing thinking "Hmmm...if I were a hungry trout, I would eat it.", only to later realize "Hmmm...if I were a hungry trout, I wouldn't eat it.". I am sure my collection looks like a small three-ringed flea circus...but until I learn the waters I wanted somewhat of an assortment to get on the water with.

I am starting to lean towards a pattern specific setup...meaning not one of those general purpose kits. I have been looking into tool kits, vises, materials, etc.. The woman who was selling her deceased husbands stuff on Craigslist sold everything tonight...so I missed out on that deal.

I found a vise review on the fly fisherman magazine website. Read through it and I am thinking about picking up a Dyna-King "Squire" vise. Seems to be a decent entry-level vise. With regards to materials...I am in favor of hitting a fly shop or Cabela's early next week and pick their brains a bit. Maybe even as early as tomorrow. Depends on how things go in the morning.

DOn't need to worry too much about me even entertaining the notion of buying the $600 kit. That was just for tools! I thought it was fairly, well for the lack of a better word...neat, until I saw the price. Then it wasn't so neat.

Thanks for taking the time to address my questions, I have many, many more...but will try to refrain from wasting too much bandwidth. Much appreciated!


Chad

[leahcim_dahc]

...

Gene,

That particular fly shop, Puget Sound Fly Co., has been suggested to me before by one of the owners of the company I work for. I intended on hitting that shop later this week, or sometime next week. Thanks!


Chad

[HillbillyGeek]

I agree with Marc; go with a Matarelli whip finisher. I tie more jigs than flies and have found the Thompson to be completely worthless for my purposes. It takes a while to get proficient at whip finishing, but once you get it down, you probably won't tie another half hitch. Everything I tie gets a whip finish. It's quick, easy, secure, and looks good. If you prefer not to use head cement, a double whip-finish will ensure that your flies never come untied. (double whip finish = a second wrap on top of the first.)

Here's more info:
http://copperfly.net/whipfinish.php

[ja_lange]

Lots of good advice from everyone here. Basically my philosophy when I started was get a basic kit and build from there. you find out really quick which materials you need to tie the flies you want. The Cabela's kit is a great starter kit. I wouldn't worry too much at first because inevitably if you get in to it you will upgrade all your stuff anyways.

[Gotcha]

For the most part, I am just looking for a decent kit to start with, and one I can take to the desert with me when I deploy. I won't feel so bad if I end up breaking or loosing anything. Mainly going to keep me busy during my down time. Once I get back home, I will be looking at getting better tools and a decent desk. But for now, something reasonable, and something I can pack up at a moments notice and haul away.

Hey man, I was looking at the same Cabela's kit for the same reason. I'm deploying soon and I wanted something to do aside from work and the gym. I've got 6 months in "The Deid" coming up. Not too bad but it isn't home. If you're still home let me know what you decided to go with.

I haven't yet started learning to fly fish but when I get back home I really want to pick it up. I figure learning to tie flies would be a good way to pass time in the desert.

[leahcim_dahc]

Gotcha-

I haven't quite made up my mind exactly what it is I want, just yet. I have a three day weekend coming up soon and plan on hitting a couple fly shops and see what's there. I have been spending more time reading through a couple books regarding different hatches and spending time on the water before I dive into any tying materials.

The vise and tools I plan on picking up this next week. I have been leaning towards the Dyna-King "Squire". It's a bit more expensive than the vise in the Cabela's kits, but from the reading I have done it appears to be a solid vise, at least from a beginner's perspective. Below is a link to the reviews if you want to check them out. The article is a couple years old, and manufacturer practices may have changed...but worth the read none-the-less.

http://flyfisherman.com/ftb/hwvise/index.html

As far as the Cabela's kit goes...I may still pick it up, not because there may be a specific pattern or materials I am after, but the more variety flies I can learn to tie I think the better off I'll be. At least I should be able to learn various methods or techniques.

I have never heard the term "The Deid" before. Had to google it to find out, I'm army...we still ride the short bus once in a while. :-) Is that an AFB in Qatar? Good luck on your deployment, hope you get back home in one piece....

[zen leecher aka Bill W]

Mark gave some good info about not buying kits as it probably has supplies you won't use.

The vise is the most important (and expensive) part. That's the one you only want to buy once. Check some out and get the best one for your purposes the first time.

[ruthven78]

My grandfather had years of fly fishing and fly tying experience, he always told me all you need is a green one, a brown one, a white one, a grey one, and a black one....thats all he ever used....course he dry fly'd alot and I've never tried myself, gonna have to change that this summer maybe....

I've always had good luck with a Montana Stonefly....I was nailing good sized trout one fall up at Horseshoe Lake (Pend Orielle Co) with it....was the only one I caught a fish on at Amber earlier this year too.....

I've tried making up my own patterns or colors and they never seem to work out well enough in the long run......

[Marc Martyn]

The vise and tools I plan on picking up this next week. I have been leaning towards the Dyna-King "Squire".

Wait! Before you buy, check out the Griffin. I just bought the Odyssey Spider and love it. It is a true rotary and the price is right at around $80.00. I am very impressed as to the machined quality and ease of use. Besides, it is made in the USA, in Kalispell, MT

(BTW) The Fly Fisherman Magazine review of Griffin is out dated and not even accurate for the current vises. The review is way off base in regards to the Odyssey Spider.

http://www.griffinenterprisesinc.com/vises.html

[leahcim_dahc]

Thanks, Marc! How well does it work not having cam operated jaws? I assume you just crank down on the screw on the side of the jaws to hold the hooks.

It appears to handle a wide range of hook sizes without having to change jaws, which is rather handy. Price is kinda nice, too! :-)

[ruthven78]

I have a cheap vise and I can count more times than I'd like on how many times the hook has slipped...very frustrating....i need to go dig out my tying stuff....it was getting kinda smelly since most of it is pretty old by now.....

[Marc Martyn]

Thanks, Marc! How well does it work not having cam operated jaws? I assume you just crank down on the screw on the side of the jaws to hold the hooks.

It appears to handle a wide range of hook sizes without having to change jaws, which is rather handy. Price is kinda nice, too! :-)

I can switch from tying a #18 to tying a 3/0 with great ease without changing any parts. The two screw adjustments are very easy to use. The Spider was suggested by Sean at the Silver Bow Fly Shop in Spokane. For the money, it is a great vise.

Go into a fly shop that handles it. They may let you tie up a fly on it in the shop to try it.