Muleys Quanity vs Quality

[eustace]

Opinions please, I would like to ask you muley (or anyone concerned) hunters what you would prefer Quanity or Quality and what you think of my assesment of the Muley buck trend.

It has been several years now that the regulations for harvesting a Mule Deer Bucks is 3 point or better. I know this requirement has been to increase the heard numbers. The trend I see happining is, when I am out and about or hunting them (especially in heavely hunted areas) is more and more big-large-mature 2 pointers. I am thinking this requirement is geneticaly creating these Muley bucks that will never be any bigger then a 2 Point. I am also seeing more and more spikes, all bucks in there first year should be forkies if they are to be large 4 pointer bucks later in life. What I am trying to say is if this trend continues could we possibly get to were there are more mature bucks that can't be harvested then the legal variety are we ruining or Mule Deer genes.

[fishaholictaz]

The trait of big forkies will keep being more predominate. They will be the mature bucks doing most of the breeding depending on how many of the 3 year olds get popped. I don't see this becoming that much of a problem unless there was already a high number of older forkies in a specific area and in that case the gene pool is already bad.

[eustace]

The problem I see is if all you can shoot is the 3pt or better bucks more and more of these mature 2pts will continue to propigate and pass there genes. I see this as a continous sustianing problem. This does not seem to be a problem in the hard to hunt and reach areas of the north half of eastern washington as it is the south half of eastern washington.

As for the gene pool being already being bad that is probley true. There have been programs in other states that strengthed the gene pool through an extended spike only season. Then a short any buck season. Simular to our spike only Bull program which is also a gene pool strengthening program.

The spike Bull only season has created more B&C Bulls to be harvested in our state since it started than almost all the preveous years to the program. Although it took several years to pay off.

[crappiemaster]

Great post eustace-

I love hunting muleys. In fact, that is the only species I hunt. They are wiley, smart, and very hard to predict. They can sit in coverage and stare at you all day without you even knowing you are 20 yards away from them in a small buckbrush. Where I hunt, on the Snake, there are some huge forks, 2 pts. You can see them across the canyon, up the rim, 600-1000yds, with the naked eye and swear it is the trophy buck you have been looking for. You will keep your binos on it until it passes under your setup trying to make out that eye guard or nub (that isn't there.) I believe part of the problem is that we don't have a good management system in Washington. We don't grow muleys here. They are just here. Oregon, has some huge muleys, but I believe there is a good incentive, management program that give farmers and ranchers incentives to grow big bucks. They are like a big fish, the enviroment has to be right for the trophies and sometimes they need help creating the environment. We, as a state, have to do that with our big game and I don't believe we help them as much as we can. I know it is costly, but what isn't that is of any worth?

[fishaholictaz]

I grew up in eastern Oregon and hunted Mule deer. I haven't seen that many big forkies maybe it doesn't take that long to change a gene pool? We had A LOT of 4 points not all big but 3 year old bucks usually carried four points. Oregon has some world class hunting in the area I grew up!

[eustace]

Yeah, eastern Oregon does have a large number of mature healthy 4 pts. I head to Sumpter every september to do the gold thing and in those travels I have yet to see a spike muley, I do see a number of forkie 18 month olds.

Bigbazztaz, when you lived in Oregon did they have the program they have now. Oregon's east side drawing only deer. It is a pretty good way to manage numbers and heard health. What area did you grow up in. The other Oregon programs to note is there extremely sucessful Antelope management and reintroduction. I see antelope almost a soon as I get into Oregon near Pendleton. And there Bighorns, the Rocky the Cali and the desert programs.

[fishaholictaz]

Yeah, eastern Oregon does have a large number of mature healthy 4 pts. I head to Sumpter every september to do the gold thing and in those travels I have yet to see a spike muley, I do see a number of forkie 18 month olds.

Bigbazztaz, when you lived in Oregon did they have the program they have now. Oregon's east side drawing only deer. It is a pretty good way to manage numbers and heard health. What area did you grow up in. The other Oregon programs to note is there extremely sucessful Antelope management and reintroduction. I see antelope almost a soon as I get into Oregon near Pendleton. And there Bighorns, the Rocky the Cali and the desert programs.

Oregon has been a draw for rifle on the east side for a long time. You can buy a archery tag for deer and elk over the counter.
I grew up in Oregon City but lived on and off with my dad in Prairie City/John day witch is between baker and La Grand.
I love Oregon for the Out door opportunities it has.
There are big horn in more places than that in Oregon They are great with there management!

[eustace]

Yeah that is evident when I am in Sumpter, I have spoted several 160+ class bucks on Elkhorn Ridge and Elk scatterd throughout northeastern oregon. Washingtons Blue mt Elk program has been a sucsess, I just wish Wa would do the same for our Muley in more areas other then the Desert unit south and west of Potholes. They do have some really biggins running around there.

What I was talking about with the Big Horns is they have three distinct subspecies in good numbers. The only problem I have read about that Oregon has with any animal program is the Rocky Mt Big Horns and the deases they are getting from domestic sheep in the Snake River region. I wish Wa would impliment some of Or programs and I know there discussing the Pronghorns.

Thanks Bigbazztaz for your input.

[Kokonuts]

This is a very interesting discussion! I hunted Mule Deer in several states years ago. Some areas are famous for the really big ones. The Arizona Strip, Book Cliffs in Utah, several areas in Colorado and the South East corner of Idaho.

I really believe that the area (minerals ) have a lot to do with bucks growing large racks. Of course the regs & hunting pressure also have a lot to do with it.
Sometimes I think about some of those places & wish I could go back to see what changes have been made over the last 30 years!

Of course I was always more interested in quality than quanity!

[eustace]

This is a very interesting discussion! I hunted Mule Deer in several states years ago. Some areas are famous for the really big ones. The Arizona Strip, Book Cliffs in Utah, several areas in Colorado and the South East corner of Idaho.

I really believe that the area (minerals ) have a lot to do with bucks growing large racks. Of course the regs & hunting pressure also have a lot to do with it.
Sometimes I think about some of those places & wish I could go back to see what changes have been made over the last 30 years!

Of course I was always more interested in quality than quanity!

kokonuts, I agree that minerals have a lot to do with horn growth. Washington every year produces a large number of world class whitetails even though the population is not nearly big as other world class producing whitetail states. The largest wash nontipical whitetail came from whitman co in muley country. Also the trend of more and more world class Bull Elk. So I believe mineral content in our ground is not a factor inhibiting the muleys. Thanks for your input kokonuts.