Poachers Busted

[skagit510]

That's what I was thinking Jerry. It would be classy to be sure. My menu would be adipose fin soup and wild coho. I can't wait to bid on it. I'm considering getting a group together to share in the ownership so we can see the dream of the clipper come to light. On a serious note though the wdfw should keep the suburban and tow the clipping trailer for the smolts with it. That way there would be two cowlitz clippers. Double the fun, double the awesome.

[BassDood]

My guess is this will lock up soon.

[jumpinjim]

Bassdood,

Good call, while the photos i found on washingtonfly fishing are funny it is best to keep this discussion on track and purposeful regarding the issue without the humor or jokes.

The bottom line is that with all these details now confirmed, the response from WDFW will be critical for all fishing communities. There have been similar offenses in Oregon this year that resulted in significant punishment so I am eager to see how our state responds in comparision to our little sister to the south. I have a feeling after we see the punishment Oregon will be calling us the little girls though.

[jumpinjim]

Jerry while I might think something is funny or find nothing wrong with a humorous post, I have been banned twice and seen enough threads deleted or locked to know that this forum does not share the same perspective. I would rather hold back so this discussion can stay alive although I am not sure I have a good understanding of what is and is not acceptable to discuss here.

[zen leecher]

I approve of discussions and airing of violations but cannot abide by the sometimes personal attacks. So, someone violated a law. They will pay for that. That's what laws are intended for.

[Matt]

So, someone violated a law. They will pay for that. That's what laws are intended for.

Therein lies the rub, my friend. Of yet none of the affiliated parties have made a public disclosure on the current course of things.... WDFW, Pautzkes, Cabelas, Swanny's, Swann himself; all are silent! We have read one "hearsay" e-mail from a Pautzke's rep, but there is no proof that the document is authentic.

My fear, and the fear of the fishing community, is that this will be swept under the rug..... He has the right to due process, but we also have a right to know the truth. Keeping in mind here the actual violation in question reportedly occurred MONTHS ago.

I just hope the right thing is done, for the resource.

[skagit510]

I approve of discussions and airing of violations but cannot abide by the sometimes personal attacks. So, someone violated a law. They will pay for that. That's what laws are intended for.

I read back through the thread. I didn't see anything personal. Like I said before I don't have any issue with Swanny, I just don't like the way he operates. Nothing personal, just his ethics are terrible from what I've witnessed first hand. I do take it personally in a way when someone mistreats the river in my back yard. In a steward and am happy to share with ethical sportsmen. It's frustrating to see that the wdfw doesn't share my passion for protecting the resource and rivers. There is a long history of them letting the resource be run into the ground. Anyone happy with the wdfw is delusional. Wild steelhead are at four percent historical abundance and salmon not much different. Then you get guys like Swanny treating it like it's their own personal toilet. They seem to get away with it. That's wrong. Poachers should be effectively removed from the river period. Ideally the law should do this. However the system of law is broken. That's how things like this happen. My prediction is that our little court of angler opinion will likely be the harshest treatment Swanny gets from all this. If a laugh can be had and a lesson learned so be it. Sadly, he's out guiding as we speak and the blatant well documented violation happened months ago. For shame on wdfw and Swanny. Swanny is a bully and wdfw the school wimp. Why you ask? Well for those of us who have been around for a while we've seen Swanny get off before. He's got friends in the department. He's beaten the rap before and didn't learn. What makes anyone think this will be different. This is not the swan man's first time at bat. He will likely lean on his good ol boy network and try to get off again. Only this time word got out. People know. So yes wdfw we are all watching. Are you going to continue to insult all the ethical sportsmen by letting your buddy off again , will you make a symbolic act, or will you do your stated job and do what is right. We are all watching.

[zen leecher]

I had in mind the personal attacks of a member of this board on by posters on the fly fishing board.

[jumpinjim]

Matt,

I won't say this again. If you don't want to accept the truth don't. No one can ever make you, stick to the world is flat theory for all I care. If you want to find out for yourself call anyone of the parties involved, they have all the contact information listed and then you can confirm for yourself. I would not have posted anything if I had not confirmed all of the facts for myself. By the way as I have understood Pautzke's was actually taken advantage of in that the guys had no part in the clipping of fins until they were handed fish later and surprised too see it. I am not only embarrassed for Swanny I feel terrible for Pautzke because they got pulled into something they wanted nothing more than to protect against. The fact that they wrote such a detailed letter is helpful to see their commitment to the resource.

[ncwflounderer]

comment removed by author this thread is making me crazy, I can't wait for more information to come forward

[skagit510]

Matt,

I won't say this again. If you don't want to accept the truth don't. No one can ever make you, stick to the world is flat theory for all I care. If you want to find out for yourself call anyone of the parties involved, they have all the contact information listed and then you can confirm for yourself. I would not have posted anything if I had not confirmed all of the facts for myself. By the way as I have understood Pautzke's was actually taken advantage of in that the guys had no part in the clipping of fins until they were handed fish later and surprised too see it. I am not only embarrassed for Swanny I feel terrible for Pautzke because they got pulled into something they wanted nothing more than to protect against. The fact that they wrote such a detailed letter is helpful to see their commitment to the resource.

Agreed Jim.

[ncwflounderer]

on Swanny's website, Pautzke is still listed as a "proud sponsor"

[jd39]

To play devil's advocate a litte and ask some questions:
Awhile back I watched a film of the "Chehalis fling" on the fishingthechehalis.com site. Dead "protected" wild fish after dead "protected" wild fish floating behind the commercial boat flagrantly violating fish handling rules and regulations. Mostly dead wild kings I believe. Anyone know what happened to that boat and crew, were they punished by the wdfw in any way? Should Swanny recieve the same punishment, harsher punishment or lighter punishment than they did and why?
If I had to bet, I'd bet that commercial boat is still out there fishing and there are still dead wild fish floating behind it.
Last question, why is Swanny's "alleged" law breaking creating this uproar when i don't remember a peep about the "Chehalis fling" online?
For the record i dont know or fish with Bill Swan, and certainly dont plan too now, just find these types of questions more interesting in these situations then the lynch mob and pitchfork.

[Matt]

Matt,

I won't say this again. If you don't want to accept the truth don't. No one can ever make you, stick to the world is flat theory for all I care.

I believe you have misconstrued my point. Someone has to speak up, it's due time..... If the allegations are true as they very well seem to be the punishment should be swift and befitting of such a flagrant and despicable egregious action against the resource that we all love, and many of us devote our lives to respect and preserve.

My fear, and the fear of the fishing community, is that this will be swept under the rug..... He has the right to due process, but we also have a right to know the truth.

I just hope the right thing is done, for the resource.

Now let's see how long it takes to motor out there before I fall off.....

[jumpinjim]

jd39 wonderful angle for discussion.

I personally have an interest in the resource and protecting it from anyone that affects the health of it's future. I would be all over those discussions but I don't ever recall seeing them here on WAlakes.

As for Swanny, even though it might sound like I want him strung up, I don't. I have made mistakes just like everyone else. I think that a penalty and punishment is needed but I don't think the Guy should be banished to pond in Kansas forever. I would welcome a similar penalty to what happened in Oregon this last september. A nice fine, loss of guiding rights, suspension of fishing priviledges for a period of time and a few nights in the clink to think. Auctioning his assets would be a little over the top but that doesn't mean I wouldn't place a bid either!

I think that it is more important to look at how other agencies uphold penalties in comparison too. Ok so lets say that vessel you mention didn't get any punishment at all, ok does that mean no one should or does that signify and repeating trend that should be corrected.

So in short I don't think our state should suggest penalties based on any past precedence from our own enforcement history. They should adopt a more proven methodology from other agencies and groups that have demonstrated a greater ability at protecting these resources.


Matt : Sorry wasn't trying to attack. I get it, and I agree. Transparency is helpful, but at the same time if you make a few calls, you will find out there is a good amount of legal issues being worked through. I believe the delay in response is less due to a desire for prosecution than properly working through the legality with all the parties involved.

[skagit510]

To play devil's advocate a litte and ask some questions:
Awhile back I watched a film of the "Chehalis fling" on the fishingthechehalis.com site. Dead "protected" wild fish after dead "protected" wild fish floating behind the commercial boat flagrantly violating fish handling rules and regulations. Mostly dead wild kings I believe. Anyone know what happened to that boat and crew, were they punished by the wdfw in any way? Should Swanny recieve the same punishment, harsher punishment or lighter punishment than they did and why?
If I had to bet, I'd bet that commercial boat is still out there fishing and there are still dead wild fish floating behind it.
Last question, why is Swanny's "alleged" law breaking creating this uproar when i don't remember a peep about the "Chehalis fling" online?
For the record i dont know or fish with Bill Swan, and certainly dont plan too now, just find these types of questions more interesting in these situations then the lynch mob and pitchfork.

Both should be flogged, hung, then burned at the stake! Just kidding but thank you JD for bringing this up. There was quite an uproar about the fling in my circles. I don't know what became of it completely but I think the point that's being missed is the state is soft or impotent at dealing with game crimes. Look at snohomish co. Open season. To deter this behavior laws must be enforced and punishments have to hurt. Oregon is way ahead of us here.

[Bmastro777]

This is fantastic....Swanny is a Dbag.

[jd39]

Thanks for the replies jumpinjim and skagit510. At the very least I hope this incident with Swanny will make someone intent on poaching think twice if it is worth the hassle and embarrassment if caught. Sadly I doubt it but will hope.
Tried googling more info on the Chehalis fling or enforcement/punishment of commercial boats and couldn't find squat other than the fishingthechehalis site.
If i had the money/time I'd become a thorn in the side of commercials and be filming and forwarding any violations to enforcement. They already get more allotted to them than I think is remotely fair to sporties.
Never fished in Oregon but have heard their fisheries management is ahead of us in several ways especially steelhead broodstock programs. Not sure why our department can't learn from Oregon's, wish they would.
Take care guys.

[ncwflounderer]

http://www.pautzke.com/prostaff_team.php?display=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Matt]

Yes.... but how do you get there?

NOT from here :
http://www.pautzke.com/prostaff_info.ph ... Washington" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;