New website in pending battle against voracious pike

[Fish-N-Fool]

Hey Mel, if you have any phone #'s please post them too.

[AJ's Dad]

I just did my part in emailing everyone on the list. I also emailed a note and a copy of the letter to Rich Landers at the Spokesman review. I told him I thought it would be interesting to see an article in the paper written from the perspective of the pike fishermen. I wonder if he will respond. I cc'd some folks from this website. If anyone is interested in seeing what I had to say and didn't get my email, I can forward it to you. Just let me know. Happy Fishing

[Lucius]

......So, how do we keep them out of the Columbia?

Well pike in the Columbia is not a common thing, but it is not the first time either. I have an In-Fisherman article from 1997 quoting a WDFW representative and they were talking about pike in the Columbia. They were talking about how you would not got to the Columbia to target pike especially with Idaho so close, but don't be surprised if you catch one. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a solution to keeping pike out of the columbia unless we are willing to dry up some waters to prevent pike from transporting down stream....which is not going to happen. Hopefully the situation of the columbia river will be like that of long lake where every now and then somebody will catch one, but they won't ever spawn.
Control the numbers which by doing so, you try to shoot for balance of the system and the model for that is to protect the big ones and have a liberal harvest rate of the smaller ones. Hopefully everybody does their part and everything works out.

Craig,
You also forgot about the squawfish the pike love to munch on that there is even a bounty out on these fish as well. Not trying to condone pike in the columbia, but that is one problem that would be handled in a timely fashion. Knowing this, the salmon/steelhead fishery would probably get better with the squawfish put in check. I am sure there would be some rollercoaster action going on once this situation happened, but eventually it would balance out, I believe...

[AJ's Dad]

Well, I got me reply from Rich Landers at the Spokesman Review. To his credit he got back to me very quickly. Actually in about 10 minutes. Unfortunately for the pike in the POR his reply sounds like he is a supporter of what's going on up there right now. He didn't come right out and say that. That was just my take on his comments. I was surfing around on the internet looking for some information on my upcomming trip to fly fish on the Flathead River in Montana. I wanted to see if they had any pike in there. Here's an article I found from the Flathead Beacon dated 4/07/10. I gotta say I liked this guys point of view.

Standing Up for the Northern Pike
Northern Pike


By Bill Schneider 04-07-10
I live in the heart of Trout Country and hang out with Trout Unlimited types, but I'm man enough to admit that I've been observed fishing for northern pike – and proud of it because I consider the water wolf one of the best game fish we have in western Montana.

I might feel differently if only trout could have anywhere near the attitude and appetite of this apex predator, but no, you'll never see a trout take down a muskrat or coot like a big pike can and does. You'll never see a 20-inch trout try to eat a 15-inch trout, but a 30-inch pike will die trying to eat a 25-inch pike. That's what you call predacious! That's why I like pike fishing. They don't gently slurp up a No. 20 PMD. They attack every lure or fly like they haven't eaten in a week. I've actually caught pike with a lemming-imitation fly that would make any trout want its mommy.

To be clear, I'm pro-pike, not anti-trout. I like trout, too. I spend many winter days out on the Missouri trying to outwit the smartest trout in the world with flies the size of grains of pepper.

When spring comes, though, I switch to pike fishing, but sadly, I have go up to Canada to do it, even though western Montana has some great pike habitat. Fisheries managers, spurred on by trout worshipers, do everything they can to make sure western Montana doesn't have fishable pike populations.
Unbelievably, we have no limit on the number taken or in possession, no size restrictions, and anglers can take pike with any method, even spearing. Netting or explosives would probably be legal pike-killing methods if we could do it without the collateral damage of taking out a few trout. We encourage pike killing derbies, like those on Salmon Lake and Seeley Lake, and we have no ethics about taking the big breeders out of the population.

Up in northern Saskatchewan, where I go each year, pike fishing is fantastic because the management is fantastic – mostly catch-and-release with barbless hooks. For trophy fish, it's all CPR (Catch, Photograph, Release), so if you want to see your prize above the fireplace, you measure it for a replica mount before carefully releasing it.

Unknown to many, northern pike are native to Montana, albeit only in the Saskatchewan River System, but brook, brown, and rainbow trout are not native to Montana. Brook and brown trout are totally invasive species, and only one rare rainbow subspecies, the redband rainbow of the Kootenai River System, is native. The rainbow trout we worship in the Bitterroot, Missouri and Madison are non-indigenous.

By the way, big trout eat little trout, and rainbows hybridize with cutthroats and may have had more negative impact on native cutthroats than pike have.

In rivers like the Clark Fork, Flathead or Bitterroot, the varied habitat allows pike and trout to co-exist. Pike concentrate in the backwaters; trout prefer moving water. When paths cross, the water wolf usually has a nice trout dinner because, like it or not, the pike is on top of the aquatic food chain. Pike dominate a lake because they're the superior species – and that makes them a mighty fine game fish. (Ditto for lake trout.)

Through the years, I've managed to convince a few trout guys to try fly fishing for pike, and guess what, they can't get enough of it. Early season sight fishing for pike in a shallow bay with a streamer or watching a big pike wallop a popper, well, that's as good as fishing gets.

I'd rather fly fish for pike than trout, but I can't fish for pike without driving a 1,000 miles. Even in excellent pike habitat in western Montana, you can blind cast all day without a single hook-up. I used to have decent success for pike on the Flathead River and in Swan Lake and Whitefish Lake, but over-consumption by pike anglers is decimating those populations. On Salmon Lake and Seeley Lake, also productive pike waters, anglers continue to kill the big pike, which may soon lead to stunted populations. We're already close to having nothing but "hammer handles" in those lakes.

Until we see a new attitude among fisheries managers, if we want pike populations and the size of the fish to increase in western Montana, we must voluntarily manage the resource ourselves. Take home a luncher here and there, but carefully release all big pike.

I sympathize with native species biologists. What species do Montana anglers really want? Browns and rainbows, pike and walleye, smallmouth bass, lake whitefish, and lake trout – all non-native species. Meanwhile, many anglers display disinterest at best for native species like bull and cutthroat trout because they aren't nearly the game fish.

I understand biologists are charged with preserving the greater good, saving as much natural diversity as possible. Their job isn't to make or keep anglers happy. Nonetheless, they face that political headwind every morning.

I wish we'd never had any illegal introductions of northern pike or smallmouth bass or lake trout, but we did. So, now we deal with the reality.

So, let's cool the pike bashing. We can't put that toothpaste back in the tube, so let's manage this incredible game fish. I find it humorous that biologists fear managing pike because they might create more excitement and enthusiasm (translate: political pressure) for pike fishing. To this, I say, ha! It's way too late.

[Lucius]

....There would be another successful way to do this. In illinois they have created an electric barrier to keep Aisan Carp out of the Great Lakes. This would work too, but I imagine the cost would be sky high. (This would be your way to "close the gate")

this does sound like a great idea. It sounds like they are still working out the bugs though and it would have to be put in a place with minimal human traffic as it could be fatal to humans if they were to come in contact. Also the preliminary cost is around $10 million. All things considered though the amount of money that they have invested in to reviving the salmon and steelhead populations, $10 million is very reasonable.

[YellowBear]

The electric fence idea might work or we could try a bubble fence.
It would need to be put on the Idaho side and one on the Montana border might help aswell.
We all know this is not going to happen.
As we all have our own ideas of how this fishery ought to be managed, I propose that we do what we think is right.
If you want C&R then do it. If you want to kill what you catch then at least eat what you kill.

[Melodie]

Well, I got me reply from Rich Landers at the Spokesman Review. To his credit he got back to me very quickly. Actually in about 10 minutes. Unfortunately for the pike in the POR his reply sounds like he is a supporter of what's going on up there right now. He didn't come right out and say that. That was just my take on his comments. I was surfing around on the internet looking for some information on my upcomming trip to fly fish on the Flathead River in Montana. I wanted to see if they had any pike in there. Here's an article I found from the Flathead Beacon dated 4/07/10. I gotta say I liked this guys point of view.

Standing Up for the Northern Pike
Northern Pike


By Bill Schneider 04-07-10
I live in the heart of Trout Country and hang out with Trout Unlimited types, but I'm man enough to admit that I've been observed fishing for northern pike – and proud of it because I consider the water wolf one of the best game fish we have in western Montana.

I might feel differently if only trout could have anywhere near the attitude and appetite of this apex predator, but no, you'll never see a trout take down a muskrat or coot like a big pike can and does. You'll never see a 20-inch trout try to eat a 15-inch trout, but a 30-inch pike will die trying to eat a 25-inch pike. That's what you call predacious! That's why I like pike fishing. They don't gently slurp up a No. 20 PMD. They attack every lure or fly like they haven't eaten in a week. I've actually caught pike with a lemming-imitation fly that would make any trout want its mommy.

To be clear, I'm pro-pike, not anti-trout. I like trout, too. I spend many winter days out on the Missouri trying to outwit the smartest trout in the world with flies the size of grains of pepper.

When spring comes, though, I switch to pike fishing, but sadly, I have go up to Canada to do it, even though western Montana has some great pike habitat. Fisheries managers, spurred on by trout worshipers, do everything they can to make sure western Montana doesn't have fishable pike populations.
Unbelievably, we have no limit on the number taken or in possession, no size restrictions, and anglers can take pike with any method, even spearing. Netting or explosives would probably be legal pike-killing methods if we could do it without the collateral damage of taking out a few trout. We encourage pike killing derbies, like those on Salmon Lake and Seeley Lake, and we have no ethics about taking the big breeders out of the population.

Up in northern Saskatchewan, where I go each year, pike fishing is fantastic because the management is fantastic – mostly catch-and-release with barbless hooks. For trophy fish, it's all CPR (Catch, Photograph, Release), so if you want to see your prize above the fireplace, you measure it for a replica mount before carefully releasing it.

Unknown to many, northern pike are native to Montana, albeit only in the Saskatchewan River System, but brook, brown, and rainbow trout are not native to Montana. Brook and brown trout are totally invasive species, and only one rare rainbow subspecies, the redband rainbow of the Kootenai River System, is native. The rainbow trout we worship in the Bitterroot, Missouri and Madison are non-indigenous.

By the way, big trout eat little trout, and rainbows hybridize with cutthroats and may have had more negative impact on native cutthroats than pike have.

In rivers like the Clark Fork, Flathead or Bitterroot, the varied habitat allows pike and trout to co-exist. Pike concentrate in the backwaters; trout prefer moving water. When paths cross, the water wolf usually has a nice trout dinner because, like it or not, the pike is on top of the aquatic food chain. Pike dominate a lake because they're the superior species – and that makes them a mighty fine game fish. (Ditto for lake trout.)

Through the years, I've managed to convince a few trout guys to try fly fishing for pike, and guess what, they can't get enough of it. Early season sight fishing for pike in a shallow bay with a streamer or watching a big pike wallop a popper, well, that's as good as fishing gets.

I'd rather fly fish for pike than trout, but I can't fish for pike without driving a 1,000 miles. Even in excellent pike habitat in western Montana, you can blind cast all day without a single hook-up. I used to have decent success for pike on the Flathead River and in Swan Lake and Whitefish Lake, but over-consumption by pike anglers is decimating those populations. On Salmon Lake and Seeley Lake, also productive pike waters, anglers continue to kill the big pike, which may soon lead to stunted populations. We're already close to having nothing but "hammer handles" in those lakes.

Until we see a new attitude among fisheries managers, if we want pike populations and the size of the fish to increase in western Montana, we must voluntarily manage the resource ourselves. Take home a luncher here and there, but carefully release all big pike.

I sympathize with native species biologists. What species do Montana anglers really want? Browns and rainbows, pike and walleye, smallmouth bass, lake whitefish, and lake trout – all non-native species. Meanwhile, many anglers display disinterest at best for native species like bull and cutthroat trout because they aren't nearly the game fish.

I understand biologists are charged with preserving the greater good, saving as much natural diversity as possible. Their job isn't to make or keep anglers happy. Nonetheless, they face that political headwind every morning.

I wish we'd never had any illegal introductions of northern pike or smallmouth bass or lake trout, but we did. So, now we deal with the reality.

So, let's cool the pike bashing. We can't put that toothpaste back in the tube, so let's manage this incredible game fish. I find it humorous that biologists fear managing pike because they might create more excitement and enthusiasm (translate: political pressure) for pike fishing. To this, I say, ha! It's way too late.

THANK YOU!!! It is great to see more support of the Pike. I really appreciate you emailing the people that I have. It seems that I am the only one they are hearing from and we know that one person does not bear much attention. But the sound of many will do alot. So the more people that take the time to email the people that can help, the better it is for the Pike. So it would be great if everyone else can let their opinion be known!

Kudos to you AJ's dad!!!

[muskyhunter]

edited by mod: me AMX. Inappropiate remark.

[muskyhunter]

edited by mod: me AMX. Inappropiate remark.

[muskyhunter]

Pleeeeaaaase ! ?

[YJ Guide Service]

Pretty sure thats never going to happen LOL.....Pike people are very passionate as are Musky, Salmon, Walleye, Steelhead, Bass, Perch, Bluegill, and trout fisherman....

[YellowBear]

Not the support I expected from a Muskie guy....

[AJ's Dad]

edited by mod: me AMX. Inappropiate remark.

Wow Todd,
What's with the shut up comment? You usually have constructive things to say. What's with this one? Did you dip in to the New Years cheer a little early?

[Mark K]

edited by mod: me AMX. Inappropiate remark.

Drinking while posting Todd?

[Fish-N-Fool]

Even for somebody that is drunk, this post was uncalled for, so I flagged it. Hopefully the moderators will handle this. It didn't surprise me though.
I think this is a very important issue!!!
Probably the most important issue for the fisherman of Wash. and Idaho that has come up in quite a while. If they get their way and pike get put on the invasive species list like they hope to, anyone could hunt pike with a bow or worse. I hope we can get more people involved, and more people talking about it here on the internet.
There will be a pike fishing seminar at the General store this spring sometime in late Feb. or early Mar. and I plan to have info on who to write to and some phone #'s to call to hand out to all the people that come to the seminar.

[Amx]

done edited

[muskyhunter]

Had a really good response back, but ran out of time. And booted me out. I am sorry bout offending those few. But there are times when you think it but don't say it. So I said it. Thats the way I am. I do think if you go back and read how many times a few of you all bash the WDF you'd get tired of it too. Comparing what other states do to what this state does as far as warmwater fishing is ridiculous. Especially the northern fishery. Those states the fishing industry is a huge part of their economy. Here its the salmon and trout. You all know the consequences if they get into the river systems. No more "Power to the Pike."
I hope this was a little bit better than my prior entry. More constructive I hope even from a musky guy. If I offended anyone I am sorry.It wouldn't be the 1st time. Hope you have a great new year. Todd

[AJ's Dad]

Muskyhunter,
I just went back and read many of the posts on this thread. What I saw were very few posts that were in my opinion "Bashing" the WDFW. What I also saw were people expressing their opinions that the WDFW seems to have a one track mind as far as the Pike population is concerned. Several posters here mention following in the footsteps of other states simply because they can see that pike fisheries are currently being successfully managed in those other states. Why not learn from their experiences? Pike fishing could be a valuable industry in Washington as well. We are all aware of the consequences that are being pointed out if the pike become established in the Columbia. The point that is being made is that several of us believe those consequences are being blown out of proportion in an attempt to justify what the WDFW and the Kalispel Tribe are trying to accomplish.

I have a reputation for saying what I am thinking as well. However sometimes I speak, then am forced to ask for forgivness for my hasty remarks. Popping in on a public forum that has been created to provide people a place to voice their opinions, and telling them to "shut up" is obviously counterproductive and will only get ones hasty remarks removed from the website. As I stated in a previous post, you normally have constructive things to say but this thread seems to hit a sore spot for you.

I have to say, I have been a boat owner for many years and back in November, I to forgot to raise my motor up before exiting the lake. Fortunately I only scratched up the skag a little and was able to clean it up with a file when I got home. If you want point out "Bashing", I believe your last post can be construed as "Bashing" the Fish-N-Fool. Remember, his name on this website is "Fish-N-Fool", not "Boat Towing Genius". We all make what seem like stupid mistakes once in a while. Chill out a little man, and go back to making the informative posts that we have seen in the past.

By the way, the offer I made to you a while back about coming over and fishing for pike on the POR with me still stands.

Happy Fishing!

[Amx]

Insults have been noted, it's gonna stop or somebody will be getting a suspention. Thankyou all.

[YJ Guide Service]

I just read this blog article from Rich Landers of the Spokesman Review and was very sad to see the type of disrespect to the Pike community he had. Everyone should sign on to this blog and respond to his comments, here is just a small part of what was said. Let him know this is not how we feel nor is this what we want to see done.

"Some anglers share at least one trait with northern pike. They apparently wouldn't hesitate to eat their own kind.
Advocates of letting nature take its course in the invasion of northern pike down the Pend Oreille River seem to have little concern for the anglers downstream in the Columbia River"
Dont bass eat other bass LOL....