Muskie @Cabela's

[Rich McVey]

I think thats a fact you have to face almost everywhere animals are in captivity.

They are not the same as they would be in the wild. A Grizzly isnt very majestic when it comes out of its fake cave, eats whatever they feed it then layes there bored the rest of the day.

Im not going to debate the specific conditions as I have not seen it lately, but It is the only place in the state where you can view them. BPS has Musky in their tanks...

Maybe we can get them in the Seattle and Tacoma aquariums too.

[Anonymous]

Rich, go re-read my post. You missed the point. I don't have a problem with them being in a tank, (FAKE LAKE?) as long as they are "maintained in good condition".
You also missed "deformed body parts, ragged skin, a mere poor representation of a noble creature". (grizzly)

Who cares if it is the only place you can see them? See what? Every esox angler I've talked to grimacces when they see them.
It was a good try, but the experiment is not working.

And those fish do not benefit Chapter 57. We did not have anything to do with that plan and yet we always have to answer questions from anglers who are shocked at their condition.

I agree with cudaman, they belong in the lake. Or on display in a tank for a short time only, then released.

[bionic_one]

I was down there this past weekend, and my daughters were asking "why do their tails look like that?"

There is a small sturgeon in the tank that has almost no tail left either.

I'm just going to go with Nirvana on this: "it's ok to eat fish, because they don't have any feelings"

[Rich McVey]

Rich, go re-read my post. You missed the point. I don't have a problem with them being in a tank, (FAKE LAKE?) as long as they are "maintained in good condition".
You also missed "deformed body parts, ragged skin, a mere poor representation of a noble creature". (grizzly)

Who cares if it is the only place you can see them? The people that dont ever get to maybe... See what? Every esox angler I've talked to grimacces when they see them.
It was a good try, but the experiment is not working.

And those fish do not benefit Chapter 57. We did not have anything to do with that plan and yet we always have to answer questions from anglers who are shocked at their condition. Negatively, regardless the question.


I agree with cudaman, they belong in the lake. As would they ALL then! Or on display in a tank for a short time only, then released.

The intention was for them being publicly seen to benifit everyone, educationally, not just you or specifically your club. Everyone in general.

If you want to discuss the tank and the condition of ALL the fish then thats one thing. You are not. Seriously, all of the fish deserve the same good care. Not just the ones YOU decide are important.

The point was not missed by me.

Anyone that truely wants to talk about the conditions and what can be done can contact me directly. I can point you in the right direction for that conversation. You wont get unbiased opinions in this secion of the forum.

[Rich McVey]

I was down there this past weekend, and my daughters were asking "why do their tails look like that?"

There is a small sturgeon in the tank that has almost no tail left either.

I'm just going to go with Nirvana on this: "it's ok to eat fish, because they don't have any feelings"

Lee: The tails were rough when they were stocked, The rearing tanks shape were blamed initially since most of the baby Muskys had the same problem from the hatchery.

There are also many deformities on these critters in the lakes, not just tank fish. Eye lesions, inverted gills, burn like patches... It happens.

Toss the stinkin catfish into a fry pan and give the Tigers more room. :chef:

[bionic_one]

Hey, at least they aren't feeding them Big Macs and Angus burgers!

[KUP]

Golly Gee, Rich. Missed everything here?
Once again - go read Muskyhunters post where he said "all the clubs benefit from the fish in the tank". That was not my opinion, but his. Why are you doing this? I thought we could all post our thoughts on this Forum?
And Doug already said that some fish just don't do well in captivity... did you send him a nasty private email,too? Please refrain from this kind of snide little comments. All the anglers on here get along just fine.
Without this meanness. Lets all just get along:cheers:

[Dex]

My 2 cents….

I think the initial thoughts of “displaying” these awesome creatures were a great idea and I’m happy that the WDFW agreed to allow this. Since that time however I find the current condition of these Muskies embarrassing. Being that I live close to Cabelas and visit often i find myself doing one of two things while I’m there. 1) Answer questions and explain why they look the way they do or 2) Just stay away from the display to avoid these question and looking at the condition. My personnel option is that they should consider removing them and restocking with just one or two younger one in hope they might to better. I realize that the trout and others may have similar issues but I’m a Muskie guy and therefore that where my focus is pointed…..

I’m glad to see so many other taking notice.

ND

[Natebg1]

Wow,

I have been following these posts for the past few days, hopefully I can intervene here and put some perspective on this entire situation. Every Angler in some way I am sure is very grateful to have any opportunity to view any type of fish NO Matter the species. However it has to be disappointing to any angler to go and view a species of fish that is not completely itself, knowing that it is obviously there to view in a sort of natural habitat. I too have been to Cabelas and viewed these fish and needless to say I was also somewhat disappointed not just for one particular fish. I was stunned that Cabelas would even want to show these fish in this condition, especially considering they represent such a large part of outdoor products and this is a type or marketing tool. In retrospect any major marketing company usually represents there product in the most precise and perfect way possible without any flaws, shouldn't Cabelas do the same? Just a thought, you can criticize and go back and forth on this subject, but why should this be so personal against others on this website. If you want to blame, point fingers or get upset, I would say that the words should be at Cabelas rather than at those trying to make valid points. We are all fisherman and fisherwomen here and should respect each other as that, we all have the same goal and objective, so as KUP said, "Let's all get along." Have a good one everyone, its been a pleasure talking with you all.

Nate

[dicinu]

I have wondered how big they will get. When I had tropical fish, I was told that they will only get so large because of the size of the environment they are in. Will this apply also to these fish?

fish will grow to a normal size as they normally do keeping a large fish or a bunch of large fish in a small tank will not stop them from growing if a fish is meant to be 6 foot it will get there. the size of the tank doesn't matter but the quality of food and living conditions. I own a empty tank I should say tanks now as I got out of reef keeping I bred fish back in the day also. I have a 240 gallon tank sitting in my garage as I wanted Tangs that grow up to 18-24 inches. so they had enough room to grow. although I sold them before I took my tank down when in a 30 gallon quarantine tank 2 of the tanks grow a inch and that was over crowded for 2 5 -6 inch fish.

back to topic:
as for the fins on the fish it could be from numerous reasons stress not being in a normal environment and in time they will grow back as I do not think a store with these fish in them will just have any ole yahoo running it. I would worry more of Diseases than tails not in full sail.

[natetreat]

I have wondered how big they will get. When I had tropical fish, I was told that they will only get so large because of the size of the environment they are in. Will this apply also to these fish?

fish will grow to a normal size as they normally do keeping a large fish or a bunch of large fish in a small tank will not stop them from growing if a fish is meant to be 6 foot it will get there. the size of the tank doesn't matter but the quality of food and living conditions. I own a empty tank I should say tanks now as I got out of reef keeping I bred fish back in the day also. I have a 240 gallon tank sitting in my garage as I wanted Tangs that grow up to 18-24 inches. so they had enough room to grow. although I sold them before I took my tank down when in a 30 gallon quarantine tank 2 of the tanks grow a inch and that was over crowded for 2 5 -6 inch fish.

back to topic:
as for the fins on the fish it could be from numerous reasons stress not being in a normal environment and in time they will grow back as I do not think a store with these fish in them will just have any ole yahoo running it. I would worry more of Diseases than tails not in full sail.

I also have raised tropical and not so tropical fish, both fresh water and saltwater, my whole life. It's a family hobby. As far as stunted growth, it can happen. Some fish release anti-growth hormones into the water when over crowded. I guess it's a defense mechanism for when the water gets too low and fish get too cramped, that sorta thing. I know this to be true when, when raising a batch of 200 fry, if the tank is too small than when they should be an inch in six months, they'll end up being a fhalf inch. It also depends on what and how much the fish eat to figure how big they get. I'm sure the cabela's tank has more than adequate filtration and sterilization, they want fish to be healthy and happy. AS for the deformations or fin nipping that's going on, that's what fish do. Over crowded hatcheries and genetic stuff is all quite normal, have you ever caught a broodstock rainbow? They're crazy looking sometimes. I've never caught a muskie before, but I'd be happy to catch one regardless of fin problems. And the ones in cabela's are only the second one's I've seen in real life. The othe pair I saw were in the memphis zoo. They were ragged like that too. So I dunno, that's what can happen with fish. It sure was cool when they gulped up the bbluegill, even though my wife screamed and ran away. :bounce:

[dicinu]

too many fish in a small area is poor water quality I don't see having a fish stuck in shallow water as all Aquariums in a normal house hold would be considered shallow water. But fish continue to grow the full size? my tallest tank was 30 inches tall and that's shallow for Chiclids, salt water, reef fish, which the only ones I ever had. I do not see this as a defense when water gets too low or cramped as the fish's normal conditions are not Compromised in Quality. I am not saying your water quality is/was garbage or anything but it is not the same as having 2 fish in a tank no matter of who is breeding them, Myself included! Too Many other factors involved low o2 high nitrate, ammonia levels along with other Params off also with an over crowded tank.

Most all fish are territorial creatures and will attack anything that is in it's area. as salmon fishers we all know how that works. same would go for 90% give or take of any other fish in the water.

I wish I would of been there for that lol blue gill getting swallowed lol dinner plate Blue gill yummy.

[Rich McVey]

" The facts are that over crowding in the tanks at the hatchery is the culprit for the fins looking the way they do. Deformities are quite common with crowded hatchery raised fish. Part of this problem has been addressed with the addition of another tank at the Ringold Hatchery, as you know, for rearing thanx to many musky fishermen that donated the money for the tank. The WDFW is also seperating these fish at an earlier age to prevent over crowding.

We tried last year to get a few of the Cabelas muskies replaced but were informed by the WDFW biologists involved with the tiger musky program that the fish available for release in the spring of 2010 were worse than what was already in the aquarium.

This year we're told by the same WDFW personel that the fish to be released this spring are in great shape and efforts have been under way for a couple months now to have most of the muskies in the Cabelas aquarium replaced with fingerlings from this years batch.

We have been in contact with Cabelas and the WDFW about this issue and after May, you will see some new smaller tiger muskies at Cabelas. " MW

The current fish were put in the tank on or about May 5th 2009. This pic is from Sept 2009. This is what was put into the tank in the first place.

[Gringo Pescador]

I really didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest. I remember the posts when the tigers were put in at Cabela's and those involved were very proud of the accomplishment (as they should be). I saw em in June just after they were put in and they looked great (to me), but seeing them the other day just blew me away. Made me sad really, for you guys that worked so hard to get them in there and for the fish themselves. I started this post to learn a little about the program, to find out if my reaction was warrented and to make sure those involved with it were aware of the condition of the fish.

IMHO I don't think anyone is to blame, I think some fish simply do better in a tank than others. I would much rather see a replica and a little info on what programs are in place to support a species of any kind than see a live but sickly looking one on display. The Musky clubs around here know their stuff, I don't. If they find it acceptable to cycle out Tigers on a regular basis I say go for it. I am surprised Cabela's doesn't do that with the trout as readily available as they are around here.

Again, sorry if I unknowingly poked at some open sores among the participants of the Musky forum, it was not my intent. As it is, I am glad I spoke up, I learned a lot and I think others did too. Hopefully one of these days I can get out on the water with some of you Musky-folk, learn a little and feel what it is like to have a tiger by the tail!

[reigndawgs]

I learned a lot about muskies despite the drama, and to be honest, drama entertains me. I actually want to catch one of these fish. I'm camping on Mayfield in the summer and my understanding is that they are in there.

[dougw]

Mayfield certainly has plenty of fish, but I am under the impression they are not the easiest to find there. Some of the other members here can point you in the right direction on Mayfield I know.

[muskyhunter]

Ms. Kup..the qoute..".In the long run it benefits all 3 clubs,the more that will follow in the future and all musky anglers." I wasnt the person that posted that. Just for the record..kevinb wrote it. Just go check it at your convienience..no biggie though. ok.?

And Reigndawgs, if you need a boat or someone to show you around hit me up. I have spent a hell of a lot of time out there over the last 5 years. Tons of hours spent away from the Mrs. ( which she is o.k. with) lol. and I know where a few 50+ plus fish live.There are tons of fish in that lake. Now getting them to hit is another story. I hope the re-replacement of the bouys on the main flat stop the jet skis and boaters from zippin across a hell of a weed flat.
I am not a guide but have shown quite a few folks around out there. I'd be willing to show you around no problem. Not a guide ...YET..but i am at present working on getting my guide license. I have a couple of gents coming out in mid to late March. Which is early for out there but plan on getting those good ol' boys from North Carolina over and a Tiger in the net. I have plenty of gear if you need it. I will take the back seat you'll get the bow with the trolling motor and off we will go..Tiger country..Just start working out the shoulder cuz I'm chuckin 4 oz to 16 oz bulldawgs. Nice and slow. You'll like the big splash downs of the pounders I am going to start throwing..BIG BAITS + BIGGER FISH..lol Just gotta get the weather to change a bit.
So give me a holler when your out there and ready to muskyhunt..thank, todd

[Amx]

Some day I'll try musky, but need to save some money so I can pay my way, and pay for gas and such. Been too bad finacialy the past couple years.

[reigndawgs]

Ms. Kup..the qoute..".In the long run it benefits all 3 clubs,the more that will follow in the future and all musky anglers." I wasnt the person that posted that. Just for the record..kevinb wrote it. Just go check it at your convienience..no biggie though. ok.?

And Reigndawgs, if you need a boat or someone to show you around hit me up. I have spent a hell of a lot of time out there over the last 5 years. Tons of hours spent away from the Mrs. ( which she is o.k. with) lol. and I know where a few 50+ plus fish live.There are tons of fish in that lake. Now getting them to hit is another story. I hope the re-replacement of the bouys on the main flat stop the jet skis and boaters from zippin across a hell of a weed flat.
I am not a guide but have shown quite a few folks around out there. I'd be willing to show you around no problem. Not a guide ...YET..but i am at present working on getting my guide license. I have a couple of gents coming out in mid to late March. Which is early for out there but plan on getting those good ol' boys from North Carolina over and a Tiger in the net. I have plenty of gear if you need it. I will take the back seat you'll get the bow with the trolling motor and off we will go..Tiger country..Just start working out the shoulder cuz I'm chuckin 4 oz to 16 oz bulldawgs. Nice and slow. You'll like the big splash downs of the pounders I am going to start throwing..BIG BAITS + BIGGER FISH..lol Just gotta get the weather to change a bit.
So give me a holler when your out there and ready to muskyhunt..thank, todd

Will do. Thanks man!

[Rich McVey]

I learned a lot about muskies despite the drama, and to be honest, drama entertains me. I actually want to catch one of these fish. I'm camping on Mayfield in the summer and my understanding is that they are in there.

My family likes camping there too. I see Musky almost every time Im there. Having the sun out helps and a good set of polerized glasses. I prefer the flats along the East side of the lake.

I'll be down at Cabelas on the 5th or 6th for the Great Out Door Days: Captains Weekend event and see them. I understand they are being replaced in May.