Where are all the Puget salmon going??

[jerrysgonefishing]

Where are all the Puget salmon going?? Attached is the path to the latest bad news report of Coho not making it back to their home hatchery. This time it is Issaquah Creek. Is Puget Sound and it':-({|= s rivers dying? Low returns to Nisqually (Coho closed), Puyallup (few Kings returned and Coho closed), Green/Elliot Bay (King season shortened then closed), Lake Washington (no Sockeye season) just to mention a few.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/111231954.html

[jerrysgonefishing]

So this is the first time I have tried to start a post and got it in the wrong topic. SORRY!!

[scott080379]

This is only a problem at isaquah....

The wallace hatchery will supplement the shortfall at the Issaquah hatchery.

The kings came and came late, the fish were jsut not biting this year......

[jerrysgonefishing]

This news report is about Issaquah creek but this is not just an Isssaquah creek issue. Look at the fish counts at the Puyallup, Cedar and Nisqually hatchery's and the reason for closing the seasons this year on those and associated waters. The historic numbers are not returning and the current returns are no where near the predicted numbers. "The fish may not be biting this year" but if they were there wouldn't be many there to catch. Sorry but the fish just are not returning!

[scott080379]

This news report is about Issaquah creek but this is not just an Isssaquah creek issue. Look at the fish counts at the Puyallup, Cedar and Nisqually hatchery's and the reason for closing the seasons this year on those and associated waters. The historic numbers are not returning and the current returns are no where near the predicted numbers. "The fish may not be biting this year" but if they were there wouldn't be many there to catch. Sorry but the fish just are not returning!

Predictions are just that.....a guess at what will be coming in.

[A9]

Sorry but the fish just are not returning!

This has been happening for decades.....

Ever since the west coast became populated in the 19th Century, salmon populations have gone down....

[crankbait42]

I think the kings all went to the green, there was a bout a million in there.

[flinginpooh]

The skok got its fair share of them. I went a few times and got 140lbs to bite on my hooks and come home with me. Ive gotten many cohos. Have caught plenty of chum and I only caught them one day. And Ive gotten enough steelies that It makes me happy. Some rivers might be on the decline. But there is alot of fisheries thriving. Weve had alot of flooding rivers the past few years maybe thes blowouts caused more problems then was expected to the fisheries. Now the budget crisis they are talking about will do nothing to fix the problem either, infact it will only be worse on the fisheries that are already suffering.

[bionic_one]

Weve had alot of flooding rivers the past few years maybe thes blowouts caused more problems then was expected to the fisheries.

I think that's the main problem with the Puyallup. It's flooded a few times and one time was just ridiculously high. If it can rip out trees it can rip out Salmon eggs too. That doesn't account for the lack of kings there this year, but the hatchery has been flooded out too. Those fish are probably due in next season and the season after.

Also of note, things like the euluchen (spelling?) smelt and other baitfish being in decline doesn't help.

[G-Man]

It think a good part of the problem is the combination of the recovery of predators and the development along the rivers and streams of the Puget Sound. I see a perfect example everyday as I drive home from work along the narrow, slow moving Sammamish Slough. I can't remember a time when I didn't see a large group of cormorants taking up roost in a tree overlooking the slough in the early evening. In our efforts to use the wetlands that the slough used to run through while providing cover for migrating fish, we have restricted and made it a gauntlet of predators that smolts need to run through in order to reach the Sound. The same can be said of nearly every other river/stream in the Puget Sound area. Until we find a way to protect the fish during their downstream migration, we will continue to experience poor returns of adult fish.

[natenez]

I heard from a guide that on the Snohomish system this year he was catching a fair number of coho jacks, but relatively few adults.

The theory as to why was commecial netting. The smaller fish can get through, but the large adults can't.

[racfish]

Where have the fish gone? 100 miles of purse sein nets dosent help.Gillnets dont help,greedy sports anglers dont help,The states big business is selling off our fishing grounds for the allmighty $$$.Our past few govs give the Japanese and Chinese carte blanche on our fish.The game dept is just about the biggest joke ever.They write tickets to the lil guys and leave big money busineses alone.The polution in our waters is totally gross.We cant kill Sea Lions because the idiots at PETA go bizzerk and our libs give in to their crying and whims.The whole cedar river runs were wiped out,cuz of the Sea lions.Global warming dosent help. Oil spills,contamination,the lists go on and on and on.Its alot of everything I stated. Its sad very sad.We cant use barbed hooks but the Natives can use a choker net.(Gillnet) We cant use a treble but seiners can drag a 100 miles of net.Starting to get the point.Our fish management in this state is a fricking joke. One day the Chinook is protected but then a week later its open season.If you read the paper lately there are no smelt either.I dont know the answers I just know that "Money Talks and Bull Dukey Walks"

[natenez]

govs give the Japanese and Chinese carte blanche on our fish.

I like what Mexico did. Japanese fishing now isn't allowed within 200 miles because they were responsible for deleting the fish populations.

[Matt]

I heard from a guide that on the Snohomish system this year he was catching a fair number of coho jacks, but relatively few adults.

The theory as to why was commercial netting. The smaller fish can get through, but the large adults can't.

I fished the Snoho system all season and caught dozens of fish, not one single jack?? [-x

[flinginpooh]

I agree with ya matt. I heard that the cow run of hos was done along time ago. I had been pulling them outta there up into dec. And chrome ones too. The runs this year are wierd. I know there is alot of new people fishing out there. So I can understand frustrations this year. There has been and still are rivers with fish out there. You need to find the fish. Its not easy some times. You can see from reading forum posts there is fish being caught. And a few of us have even had really really good years. Look at matts pics hes posted, Jens has posted numerous pics of steel this year, Ive posted up quite a few, Curado posted lots up, cudaman has posted some nice pics, natetreat has posted some nice fish up. Im just saying some of us are finding the fish and Im sure we arent posting all pics up. Well I know some arent. I dont like to give up all the secrets and Im sure others dont. We try to give out hints and tips here and there and get grief some times for it. We all fish differently and youll figure out yours and get good at it with enough time on the waters. Ive said this many times but learning to read water will be your biggest help. Understanding when you have too much lead will help alot. Lighter is better, but you want it to still bounce across the bottom, it will help you feel bites as well as entice a bite because of the action its adding to your bait. Dont be scared to fish a spot noone else is. Specially if your learning to read water youll start noticing locations fish might be holding or understanding the path the fish will swim in the river. Youll start hooking more fish. The puyallup sportsmans show is comming up hit the seminars they have. They will give you some gr8 basics on techniques. And practice practice practice. Time on the water has no substitute. Try and get out with someone that is catching alot of fish. Watch them and imitate what they do. They are catching fish for a reason. Sometimes though there just isnt any fish in the river at that time. Others your not doing something right. I mean I was fishing the nisqually ths year. I really dont fish this river so wasnt sure exactly what would work right there. I started going through the process of figuring it out. 3 hours of fishing and still had caught nothing. It was getting dark so I left. Next day I showed up and started some other things and trying a few other colors. Finally after 45 min I nailed my first king there. A 17lb king. I then fished a lil while longer and hooked another fish but it got off. I moved down river just a lil. Fished there for 2 hours. Caught nothing. It was almost 12 noon now. I was just packing up when the nets moved in. They pulled up 15 fish in 2 min right in front of me. Right where I was fishing 15 fish was stacked in there. No jumping no rolling no sign of fish but they was there. Had I pissed them off and enticed them the right way I could have caught them. lol Just saying its a weird year of fishing, runs comming in late, some runs hitting early. Runs being closed then opened. I mean its not usual but there is some gr8 fishing out there. Its been one of my best years in a while.

[natetreat]

I agree with ya matt. I heard that the cow run of hos was done along time ago. I had been pulling them outta there up into dec. And chrome ones too. The runs this year are wierd. I know there is alot of new people fishing out there. So I can understand frustrations this year. There has been and still are rivers with fish out there. You need to find the fish. Its not easy some times. You can see from reading forum posts there is fish being caught. And a few of us have even had really really good years. Look at matts pics hes posted, Jens has posted numerous pics of steel this year, Ive posted up quite a few, Curado posted lots up, cudaman has posted some nice pics, natetreat has posted some nice fish up. Im just saying some of us are finding the fish and Im sure we arent posting all pics up. Well I know some arent. I dont like to give up all the secrets and Im sure others dont. We try to give out hints and tips here and there and get grief some times for it. We all fish differently and youll figure out yours and get good at it with enough time on the waters. Ive said this many times but learning to read water will be your biggest help. Understanding when you have too much lead will help alot. Lighter is better, but you want it to still bounce across the bottom, it will help you feel bites as well as entice a bite because of the action its adding to your bait. Dont be scared to fish a spot noone else is. Specially if your learning to read water youll start noticing locations fish might be holding or understanding the path the fish will swim in the river. Youll start hooking more fish. The puyallup sportsmans show is comming up hit the seminars they have. They will give you some gr8 basics on techniques. And practice practice practice. Time on the water has no substitute. Try and get out with someone that is catching alot of fish. Watch them and imitate what they do. They are catching fish for a reason. Sometimes though there just isnt any fish in the river at that time. Others your not doing something right. I mean I was fishing the nisqually ths year. I really dont fish this river so wasnt sure exactly what would work right there. I started going through the process of figuring it out. 3 hours of fishing and still had caught nothing. It was getting dark so I left. Next day I showed up and started some other things and trying a few other colors. Finally after 45 min I nailed my first king there. A 17lb king. I then fished a lil while longer and hooked another fish but it got off. I moved down river just a lil. Fished there for 2 hours. Caught nothing. It was almost 12 noon now. I was just packing up when the nets moved in. They pulled up 15 fish in 2 min right in front of me. Right where I was fishing 15 fish was stacked in there. No jumping no rolling no sign of fish but they was there. Had I pissed them off and enticed them the right way I could have caught them. lol Just saying its a weird year of fishing, runs comming in late, some runs hitting early. Runs being closed then opened. I mean its not usual but there is some gr8 fishing out there. Its been one of my best years in a while.

It's true a lot of us don't post on the fish we do catch. I've been catching fish this season, not in the numbers that I'd like or in the size range that I'm used to, but I've brought my share of chrome tot he bank. But I'm out there a LOT, and know where to fish when the water is up, down, brown or vodka, I hae my tecchniques and I have experience. I'm not from around up north originally, so it's been a learning experience for me, and I have to say, I've never had to work so hard to catch the chrome that I've caught up here on the rivers that I grew up fishing.
I don't see the pproblem with being dissapointed by the lack of solid and predictable returns, but this year, for me at least it's taken persistence and hours on the water to get the fish to pull back. Like pooh say's you gotta find the fish that are there.

[natetreat]

I heard from a guide that on the Snohomish system this year he was catching a fair number of coho jacks, but relatively few adults.

The theory as to why was commecial netting. The smaller fish can get through, but the large adults can't.

I've caught numerous coho jacks at about a 4:1 ratio on the snoho system, I can attest to that fact. It's weird. That's an interesting theory about the nets. I wish more people would just catch their own salmon rather than pay the ridiculous prices for 'em in the market. I've seen darker kings for sale at 30 dollars a pound, meat with only about half color. But most of it goes overseas anyways, and they don't have the fine standards that we fishermen do on chrome vs boot.

[natetreat]

Where have the fish gone? 100 miles of purse sein nets dosent help.Gillnets dont help,greedy sports anglers dont help,The states big business is selling off our fishing grounds for the allmighty $$$.Our past few govs give the Japanese and Chinese carte blanche on our fish.The game dept is just about the biggest joke ever.They write tickets to the lil guys and leave big money busineses alone.The polution in our waters is totally gross.We cant kill Sea Lions because the idiots at PETA go bizzerk and our libs give in to their crying and whims.The whole cedar river runs were wiped out,cuz of the Sea lions.Global warming dosent help. Oil spills,contamination,the lists go on and on and on.Its alot of everything I stated. Its sad very sad.We cant use barbed hooks but the Natives can use a choker net.(Gillnet) We cant use a treble but seiners can drag a 100 miles of net.Starting to get the point.Our fish management in this state is a fricking joke. One day the Chinook is protected but then a week later its open season.If you read the paper lately there are no smelt either.I dont know the answers I just know that "Money Talks and Bull Dukey Walks"

All of these probblems are part of it. The salmon are on the endagered species list now, so the activists can rest assured that they'll be safe which leads the government to conduct business as usual. I wonder how many fish netted by non-US fishermen get thrown back because they have an adipose fin? I've been watching animal planet and see the shows about how folks in other countries just harvest the fish until they're all used up and then they just switch to a less desirable fish. Like how they've wiped out the mekong catfish and now they all eat carp. Our salmon swim from puget sound to international waters, so the more fish we pump out, the more other countries can eat 'em up. It's a balance of power issue, where conservationist want hands off, and non-conservationists want to pretend that there's no problem at all. Some sorta middle ground needs to be found, but that's completely counter intuitive to politics now isn't it.

[jerrysgonefishing]

Thank you all for the imput. Lots of good conversation. Thoughts from all sides of the fence, bad year, normal year and great year. For my part I fish the Puyallup most of the time and in years past have never had trouble finding and hooking fish. This year nothing on the punch card. I have not been able to give the chum a try yet this year. Hatchery counts on the river are way down. Hopefully we can get a few years without the river having scouring floods and get the hatchery producing without being flooded out and get both the wild and hatchery fish back in shape. Only time will tell.