Genetically modified salmon

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donman
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Genetically modified salmon

Post by donman » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:51 am

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WASHINGTON (AP) - Tinker with the genetics of salmon and maybe you create a revolutionary new food source that could help the environment and feed the hungry.

Or maybe you're creating what some say is an untested "frankenfish" that could cause unknown allergic reactions and the eventual decimation of the wild salmon population.

The Food and Drug Administration hears both arguments Monday when it begins a two-day meeting on whether to approve the marketing of the genetically engineered fish, which would be the first such animal approved for human consumption. The agency has already said the salmon, which grows twice as fast as conventional salmon, is as safe to eat as the traditional variety.

Approval of the salmon would open the door for a variety of other genetically engineered animals, including an environmentally friendly pig that is being developed in Canada or cattle that are resistant to mad cow disease.

"For future applications out there the sky's the limit," said David Edwards of the Biotechnology Industry Association. "If you can imagine it, scientists can try to do it."

AquaBounty submitted its first application for FDA approval in 1995, but the agency decided not until two years ago to consider applications for genetically engineered animals - a move seen as a breakthrough by the biotechnology industry.

Genetic engineering is already widely used for crops, but the government until now has not considered allowing the consumption of modified animals. Although the potential benefits - and profits - are huge, many individuals have qualms about manipulating the genetic code of other living creatures.

Genetically engineered - or GE - animals are not clones, which the FDA has already said are safe to eat. Clones are copies of an animal. With GE animals, their DNA has been altered to produce a desirable characteristic.

In the case of the salmon, AquaBounty has added a growth hormone from a Chinook salmon that allows the fish to produce their growth hormone all year long. The engineers were able to keep the hormone active by using another gene from an eel-like fish called an ocean pout that acts like an on switch for the hormone, according to the company. Conventional salmon only produce the growth hormone some of the time.

In documents released ahead of the hearing, the FDA said there were no biologically relevant differences between the engineered salmon and conventional salmon, and there is a reasonable certainty of no harm from its consumption.

Critics have two main concerns: The safety of the food to humans and the salmon's effect on the environment.

Because the altered fish has never been eaten before, they say, it could include dangerous allergens, especially because seafood is highly allergenic. They also worry that the fish will escape and intermingle with the wild salmon population, which is already endangered.They would grow fast and consume more food to the detriment of the conventional wild salmon, the critics fear.

A wide range of environmental, food safety and consumer groups have argued that more public studies are needed and the current FDA process is inadequate because it allows the company to keep some proprietary information private. Modified foods are regulated under the same process used for animal drugs.

"It is outrageous to keep this vital information secret," said Wenonah Hauter, director of the advocacy group Food & Water Watch. "Consumers have a right to know what FDA is trying to allow into our food supply."

Dr. Michael Hansen, senior scientist at Consumers Union, the publisher of Consumer Reports, says the agency is relying on too little data, much of which is supplied by the company itself.

"FDA has set the bar very low," he said.

Ron Stotish, the chief executive of AquaBounty, countered that the company has more than addressed the concerns, and his product has come under much more scrutiny than most food.

"This is perhaps the most studied fish in history," he said. "Environmentally this is a very sustainable technology."

The company has several safeguards in place to allay concerns. All the fish would be bred female and sterile, though a small percentage may be able to breed. They would be bred in confined pools where the potential for escape would be very low.

In its environmental analysis of the fish released earlier this month, the FDA agreed with the company that there are enough safeguards in place.

Stotish says the fish would be bred in better conditions than many of the world's farmed salmon, and could be located closer to population centers to help feed more people. The company has also said the increase in engineered salmon production could help relieve endangered wild salmon populations.

The company is also arguing that the fish do not need to be labeled as genetically engineered, so the common customer would not know if they were eating the modified product or the conventional product. The second day of the FDA meeting will focus on the labeling question.

"This fish is identical to the traditional food," maintained Stotish. "The label could even be misleading because it implies a difference that doesn't exist."

At the meeting Monday, the FDA, the company and critics will present their findings to an advisory committee, which will in turn advise the FDA. A decision will come after the meeting, though it is unclear how long that will take. If approved, the fish could be in grocery stores in two years, the company estimates.

The industry says their job will be to counter the common impression that the modified salmon are "frankenfish."

"In the story of Frankenstein it was the fear of the people driving it, it wasn't the monster that was evil," says Edwards of the Biotechnology Industry Association. "If you look at the science and the safety and you look at the benefits, they become very exciting products."

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/1032 ... -container

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racfish
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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by racfish » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:59 am

We mess with everything else in our lives.Just think of a new really good viruses that the fish can get and give to the wild stock.Instead of creating new food sources by the "Frankensteining "of fish,perhaps we should care for the ones we have now. By adding more to what we allready have will just deplete the bait situation. Maybe by adding more predators to the herring,anchovies,and smelt stocks we can wipe them out too.
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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by Jay K » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:27 am

The risk of genetically altered salmon to humans is probably low to zero, however as racfish suggests, the risk to wild populations of fish could be more of a real issue. Certainly improper coastal farming of Atlantic salmon has often severely and negatively impacted the environment and wild stocks of fish. Also, the fact that these are piscivorous fish, need to consume pellets made from ground fish meal (forage stocks in the ocean) and would be "hungry all the time" due to the continuous "on" position of their growth hormone would severely negatively affect forage stocks in the ocean thereby causing a chain-depletion of food for wild ocean going species of all animals in the food chain.

I suspect their "humanitarian" reasons of genetically-altering a salmonid that could grow faster and feed more people are less true, considering they should have probably developed a vegetarian fish (ie: the tilapia or basa) with the growth hormone switch instead, but since those are "cheap" fish ($0.99/lb retail now) versus salmon (farmed Atlantic salmon can go for as much as $8.99/lb retail at Costco not to mention more at higher end retailers) they deliberately targeted a widely popular fish which commanded a significant market price. It's true they need to make a profit to pay for the costs of their research, but tell it like it is... don't try to couch it in false humanitarian reasons to get your approval.

I'd eat genetically altered animals or fish. When it comes down to it, the toxins an animal picks up in the environment are what's detrimental or cancer-causing to humans. When your body breaks down the protein to amino acids - that's all it is... all the same. I suppose if they produced an animal that had more "bad" cholesterol, that'd be another story. I think the allergen risk is likewise low to zero; Furthermore, if you DO find yourself allergic to genetically altered salmon, then don't eat it - like any other foodstuff you'd find yourself allergic to be it peanuts, strawberries, chocolate, whatever...

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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by bionic_one » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:33 am

I don't understand why they have to do the BS with net pens in the open ocean. They should be restricted to ponds or pools with no means to access a river system or other natural body of water.

Further, they should be forced to produce these fish as triploids. It's just a matter of time before a storm or boat rips the net pen and releases them to the wild.
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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by Matt » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:35 am

The implications for wild stocks are too high.

I say nay on the GE fish!
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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by scott080379 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:36 am

this is be on the table for awhile now. IT is BS that they even are thinking of doing htis.

Bionic one: you are right just like when the the atlantic salmon pen that busted open in the 90's up here.

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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by bionic_one » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:43 am

Did some more research, aparently they intend for them to be sterile females (we call 'em triploid 'round here)
The company has several safeguards in place to allay concerns. All the fish would be bred female and sterile, though a small percentage may be able to breed. They would be bred in confined pools where the potential for escape would be very low.
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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by BentRod » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:52 am

What Jay K said x2

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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by Matt » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:42 am

Mating competition is only one small concern in regards to wild stocks. Infectious diseases and fungi commonly associated with farmed fish could be spread to hatchery and wild stock posing serious implications on the health of those populations. Also, competition for available food could become a big problem if they entered the wild environment. This is especially significant due to the fact that these fish would be non-breeding triploid fish which would spend the majority of their energy searching out food rather than focusing on reproduction goals.

I think overall it is a very bad idea.
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by G-Man » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:34 pm

You'd think with all the sci-fi movies that have been made regarding genetically altered species, folks would know better. Unfortunately, just like the movies, the all might dollar is driving this type of research and development.

The better solution to food shortages is to stop producing so many mouths to feed. Anyone remember Soylent Green?

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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by Marc Martyn » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:44 pm

The Dr. Frankensteins in the game department drive me nuts. They are always trying to make species bigger and better. The triploids they planted in Amber several years back were a big bust. They promised huge fish and very little were ever seen.

They killed off Fish Lake by Cheney a few years back. Before they did that, the lake had big browns and eastern brooks. It was a fantastic lake to fish. After the kill off, they planted it with tiger trout and promised that they would obtain huge sizes and keep the scrap fish at bay. Ya, right. Fish Lake today is overflowing with pumpkin seeds. The "super tiger trout" that were suppose to keep them at bay are not growing to the huge size they predicted. The browns and brooks did a better job of keeping the scrap fish down. In my opinion, they totally destroyed a fantastic fishery.

I wish the geneticists would work on curing human diseases like Sickle Cell Anemia, Cystic Fibrosis and Parkinson's disease instead of trying to build the super fish.
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by racfish » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:48 pm

bionic_one wrote:Did some more research, aparently they intend for them to be sterile females (we call 'em triploid 'round here)
The company has several safeguards in place to allay concerns. All the fish would be bred female and sterile, though a small percentage may be able to breed. They would be bred in confined pools where the potential for escape would be very low.
Isnt that what B.P. said about their offshore platforms?But alas it happens. It just always does.Its Murphys law.
When youre up to your rear end in alligators,its hard to remember that the initial plan was to drain the swamp.

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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by knotabassturd » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:50 pm

racfish wrote:We mess with everything else in our lives.Just think of a new really good viruses that the fish can get and give to the wild stock.Instead of creating new food sources by the "Frankensteining "of fish,perhaps we should care for the ones we have now. By adding more to what we allready have will just deplete the bait situation. Maybe by adding more predators to the herring,anchovies,and smelt stocks we can wipe them out too.
I'm 100% with you (and Marc Martyn, others). Don't know what potential havoc it will cause until it is often too late.#-o Guess people don't look at history much.

PS-"...potential for escape would be very low." Sounds like lawyer-speak (no offense to any attorneys out there) for 'you can't sue us when we screw up and these things take over cuz we said the risk was very low but not zero.'
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by VooDuuChild » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:31 am

I think it's a great idea personally. Everywhere I've fished around these parts like Lake Stevens, the triploids have been a great addition to the ecosystem and to our fishing. (they've been putting them in there for years) If they ate all the food stocks there, how come the Kokes are still such a hot ticket to catch out there? I've noticed no difference in the rainbow catch either. What I have noticed is people pulling six and seven pound trips outta there. They're amazing, they look like salmon they're so big and are a treat to eat and smoke. We've been eatin trips for years and we're still here. As for issues with fungus and disease, it's typically the freshwater fish that are more prone to that and it's not been a big deal in the lakes I've fished. As a matter of fact, when I worked at a pet store, if the freshwater fish got fungus and some kinds of parasites, guess how that's treated......SALT. What I'm wondering though is that since they say almost all will be sterile, will they follow others into the streams and get our rivers full of fish again, or will they just stay out to sea? Right now, we don't know and would all be speculation, but I'd imagine that could cause a problem as animals have an amazing genetic memory (which allows most animals to have survival instincts from birth) which could easily trigger them to run up streams and just die......but then again, that's just more for us to catch in the rivers (I could sure use that after weeks of catching NOTHING) and more dead ones in the river for the smolt to eat, which would be great too.

I'm down with it. I would also like GE Crappie and Sunfish!!!!!!!!!!!!! Imagine takin on a five pound crappie or a two pound sunfish......ah, I can dream.
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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by bionic_one » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:38 am

Triploids are not genetically enhanced. Yep, lots of people love them, but these fish are not just triploids. They are mixed with DNA from several species, AND they are triploids.

I think most people, even me, don't really care if they actually make the fish. The problem is, they ALWAYS get loose somehow, and would damage the eco-system, particularly if the triploid process failed (it actually does sometimes).
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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by VooDuuChild » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:17 pm

umm, from what I read, since GE has not been implimented with animals yet, aren't all implications with their impact speculation at this point? Most of our vegie's are GE and it's even been shown that they're even better for you in most cases than organic....Penn & Teller's show did a special on that to bust the myth of organic foods being the way to go. You can probably find the episode through hulu, youtube or netflix. But then again, I'm the kind of person who'd like to see animals cloned or brought back from extinction; mostly just to be able to see them, not really cuz I am a tree lovin peta hippy, as I'm not. (no offense to any tree lovin peta hippy, I have hair down past my ass so I too look the part,,,,=-)
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RE:Genetically modified salmon

Post by A9 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:26 pm

Just say no to messing with nature. Hatchery fish are bad enough...
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