Global Warming

[littleriver]

So does "off topic" mean we can talk about global warming ?????

[Easy Limits]

I think "global warming" is about as "off topic" as it gets.

[littleriver]

but then again, maybe it can be tied into sport fishing...


Let's say all those big gas guzzling SUV's our eco-evangelists drive around in pump so much
CO2 into the environment that the earth warms a couple of degrees and the ice caps melt... this would create a situation where thousands of ice flow denied polar bears are swimming around in the oceans looking for a new home.....


The polar bears would eventually drown but it would be only after swimming hundreds of miles and during this swim they would be theoretically capable of eating hundreds of salmon each....... The salmon would be forced to the surface because they would be confused by all the fresh water and the lack of identifying landmarks along the shore because of all the flooding........ anyways, this whole ugly scenario could easily lead to the demise of our salmon runs and it may deserve more attention.....

[Easy Limits]

Don't worry, according to the Mayan calendar, life as we know it ends in 2012.

[Mike Carey]

Don't get me started! Hey, Rush put out a very good album years ago titleed 2012, ever hear it?

[Marc Martyn]

Wow! You guys brightened up my day!8-[

[Matt]

There are so many aspects to climactic change I don't think it can really accuarately be debated here.

My .02, we are f*****, people are too arrogant and too stuck on their luxurious lifestyles to realise we are actually being faced with an issue that could change our living environment and more importantly our lives. People won't quit using petrol until the last drop has been burnt, people won't stop procreating until they can't even take a s*** because they are rubbing elbows with 20 billion others, and most important people won't change until they are forced to by their own demise.

Matt

[littleriver]

Unfortunately Matt's view, as expressed here, is far too common in western cultures today and it reflects a media and an education and an entertainment system that is obsessed with the notion that humans are evil (or at least that we annoying lower and middle class folk are bad.. the rich and the powerful like Al Gore and Cheryl Crow, well, they're OK).... If you dig deep into the recesses of every environmental initiative promoted over the last 35 years (environmentalism as we know it today really started in 1972 when Willam Ruckelshaus ignored the recommendations of the scientists he hired to advise him and banned DDT) the underlying theme is always that "humans are bad"... "humans pollute, humans have too many kids, humans are destroying the planet". Matt, in his post, does a very nice job of expressing this theme in very down to earth terms.


First of all I think the current population of the planet is more like about 6 billion, not 20.... and we could easily fit all 6 billion within the confines of 3 average sized states and everyone would have a whole quarter acre to live on.... A lot of technology would have to be implemented to make this possible (i.e. water, sewer, transportation, etc., etc.) but it could be done..... calculations to validate are easy to make......


Another interesting factoid is that the earth's human population is not "exploding"... in many nations (including Iran) reproduction levels are actually below what is needed to maintain stable numbers.. A guy by the name of Ben Watenburg has written a book recently on this subject..........


but back to human caused global warming.


Industrialization does put a lot of bad stuff into the air and water and it is important to be aware of these and to be constantly developing new technologies and new ways of doing things that reduce out emissions footprint.... but we have to do these things for the right reasons...... The current "warming cycle" our planet is experiencing is probably caused by increased energy intensities from the sun. It turns out that Mars is experiencing global warming at about the same rate as planet earth and about the only thing mars and the earth have in common is that they revolve around the sun......


but our global warming discussions need to start being debated at a more basic level. At this more basic level we need to talk about changing the fundamental, underlying ideology of environmentalism from a "people are bad" kind of theme to a "people are good" kind of theme.........


not going to be easy...... The lifeblood of "environmentalism" is money and they have lots and lots of it.... I've read estimates as high as 40 Billion a year from tax free foundations alone.... Note: when you start an environmental group you don't ask friends for donations and then use the money to pay for flyers to go out to the public to ask for more money, you stand in the line outside one of the tax free foundations (i.e. the Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller Family Fund, the Bullitt Foundation, the Carnegie Foundation, etc., etc.... there are thousands of them) and give them your proposal. if they like it you get a grant for anywhere from $5k to maybe as high as $100k. Unfortunately, it is the trustees of these foundations who control the "ideology of the environment" and, as Matt was able to communicate so well, they really don't seem to like us.

[Easy Limits]

Don't get me started! Hey, Rush put out a very good album years ago titleed 2012, ever hear it?

I think it was 2112, Mike.

[Bodofish]

World population is estimated at 670 million. How many unwanted (needed) babies has anyone adopted today? I think I'll go grease my jetboat. =)

[A9]

First of all, Polar bears are not going to swim around forever trying to find a new home. They will lose their habitat and food first before they resort to swimming into the open sea.

Second of all, world population isn't 670 million. The US is just over 300 million, and the world population is up to like 6.5 billion. I think China's population is bigger then 670 million by a few hundred millions.

Third, cars aren't the only reasons for global warming. Cow crap even contributes to globab warming. Methane from their crap. A pound of methane compared to a pound of CO2, methane is a lot more damaging in terms of global warming in general.

[Easy Limits]

Scientist have discovered that Mars is also suffering from global warming. Mars is warming at the same rate as Earth. Those folks on Mars really need to cut down on their carbon emissions.

[bigastrout]

The more you drive your car the better the Bass fishing gets!

[Mike Carey]

2112, that's right, still a great album. Maybe Rush has it right and the Mayans have it wrong.

[Matt]

I wasnt saying the population was 20 billion, I was saying that its on its way there. And I wasnt trying to imply that humans are evil, most of us aren't, but what I was implying is that social obsessions cause people to feel that luxuries are in fact needs.

I know you weren't flaming me littleriver, just wanted to clarify.

Matt

[A9]

Matt,
I was saying Bodofish is the wrong one when he said that the world pop is like 600 million or something like that. The population could reach 20 billion, but by then I'd say that the global warming would have such a largescale impact already that millions of people will have died as a result in some form or another before we get to 20 million.

[Don Wittenberger]

Sorry bodofish, but world population is 10 times what you think it is -- over 6.5 billion at the end of 2006 and growing every day.

The only thing I'll say about global warming is that virtually all of the world's reputable scientists agree that it's occurring, that it's caused in part by human activities (especially burning fossil fuels), and that it will create problems. I believe them. I don't believe the people who have no scientific qualifications to speak on the topic but have a trainload of emotion-laden political axes to grind. Whether we can do anything about it, besides live with the consequences, is a different question and may not have an answer. But all you have to do to see that global warming is real is look at the receding alpine glaciers here and in Europe.

[muskyhunter]

And remember Mike....
"And the meek shall inherit the earth........" Neil Peart Rules!!!

[muskyhunter]

Also,
I remember back in the 70's...When the Glaciers were moving forward and everyone predicted the next Ice Age...And Ray Ramono wasn't a Wooly Mammoth back then...It's called climate change...It goes in cycles, always has....Manhattan Isle did have a glacier too...check your Science books......One more thing, remember the Industrial Age back in the early 1900's and acid rain. Lake Erie was dead...ahhgh enough about global warming!! I need a new truck dammit.

[Mike Carey]

LOL, my 13 year old is taking up electric guitar and wanting me to turn him on to old the old dinosaur bands. Can anyone say Ted Nugent? =d> :d/