Homelessnes

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Bodofish
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Re: Homelessnes

Post by Bodofish » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:35 am

Mike Carey wrote:Maybe fact check needs to check it's facts, and yes, this program was started many administrations ago, in 1996, but like everything else with our new standard trillion dollar a year deficits the program has exploded in cost, from $772 million in 2008 to 1.6 billion in 2012.

The phone is not limited to emergency 911, it covers 250 minutes of airtime.
Wow 250 min! That seems a bit excessive, even when I was using my phone for daily business communications I rarely went over 300. That's a lot of minutes unless you're a teenage girl....... Or a sales person.......
tnj8222 wrote:All cellphones dial emergency services evrn without a sim card.
Yes it's well known but, you still have to have a phone to do it. I've been approached to donate older phones for redistribution for emergency services almost every time I've upgraded.
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Re: Homelessnes

Post by MotoBoat » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:21 am

This government program has serious problems. Among them are: Cost, abuse, lack of accounting...ect! And yes, the taxpayer is funding through "Service fund fee" added to land line and wireless customers. Below are some highlights from one of Mike C's links.

The program is funded primarily by the Universal Service Fund fee added to the bills of land-line and wireless customers.

The Universal Service Fund provides discounts on phone services, or in some cases, entirely free services to low-income Americans. The fund helps pay for landlines or cell phones, whichever the recipient prefers.

Then, the fund covers phone bills to the tune of $10 a month, which typically translates as 250 minutes for wireless plans of the types of phones we’re talking about. Americans who receive food stamps, Medicaid, or other federal aid, or who earn up to 135% of the federal poverty guidelines, qualify for the program.

What’s more, an FCC audit of the program last year showed that many participants in the program were taking more than their fair share.

In 2011, Lifeline paid out $1.6 billion, more than double the amount paid in 2008 ($772 million).

What’s more, an FCC audit of the program last year showed that many participants in the program were taking more than their fair share. According to Businessweek:

Senator Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) has been taking a closer look at the program since she personally received an invitation to apply for a free, government-subsidized cell phone in the mail. McCaskill has asked the FCC to investigate Lifeline.

269,000 wireless Lifeline subscribers were receiving free phones and monthly service from two or more carriers. After eliminating nearly 270,000 of the duplicate subscriptions discovered in the audit last year, the FCC said it has already “saved” $33 million.

This last sentence is a spin on "saving $33million". Cause there is still 1.6 billion, and growing, left still to be saved!

I have encountered more than one "suspected" panhandler/homeless person, asking for a handout while on a cell phone talking t someone. They were not in the middle of a "job interview" or speaking to "911". That really deflated any compassion I had towards helping that person.

I and my wife have encountered more than one destitute person ask for money. We offered food instead. They declined or excepted only to throw it on the ground after we turned away.

There are enough scammers out there to not know if the donation is really needed. Or with drug and or alcohol issues, clouding good judgement.

My wife has helped several friends in time of financial need. None were required to pay back in a timely fashion. But all new it was a "loan" and not a donation. They were instructed to "pay back the money, when they could". None have paid her back!

One is a devout Christian, and received $150.00 to pay rent. She instructed "her friend (my wife) that payment would start once she got a job. That rent payment occurred 3 to 4 years, and a couple jobs ago.

I enjoy helping people. But am burned out giving cash. Now I donate my services, with my hands, through repairs. From gas engines to carpentry. Some items aren't worth fixing. But the challenge to McGiver something is fun, within reason. I am pretty amazed at what can be fabricated in a high quality fashion without having the specified tool for the job. But one fashioned to do the job. Or taking on a repair for the first time, with no previous knowledge.

For instance. My dad brings over a 2 stroke gas weed eater that is brand knew looking. But won't run. He would like to fix it to donate, for maintaining the grounds around the grange where he square dances. I check compression, spark, fuel. All are good, and therefore should run like a champ, but won't start. Next, squirt fuel into carb to bypass the entire fuel delivery system, NADA!. Scratch my head. Go look a several youtube vid's on fixing weed whackers and small gas engines. One video is striking, in that it mentions crank case pressure as part of the fuel delivery system of a 2 stroke engine. There are crank case gaskets that rarely fail, but are necessary for operation. There are two gaskets, one looks suspect. But never crossing this bridge before I was winging it. Through attempts to acquire new crankcase gaskets. It was discovered that none were available for the inexpensive weed whacker. Back to youtube to investigate how to make your own gasket. Two vid's instructing the use of a "brown grocery bag" or a cardboard container food items come in. Using the old gaskets as a template, a trisquite box was used for gasket material. Gaskets replaced, engine still won't start. Gas squirted into the carb, motor now starts! But won't continue to run on gas in the tank. Rebuild carb, and motor now runs on it own. Adjust carb high and low speed adjustments and this thing winds up!! Idles good also. I feel good, my dad feels good.

The other day, I am passing by a bus stop with people waiting for the 358 to arrive. A guy tells me, sir I need bus fair, can you help? Sorry, I have no cash and began walking away from him, and the bus stop. But I did have bus passes in my wallet from renewing my vehicle tabs. I offered two of those to him, on the condition he offer them to someone if he did not use them both! He agreed to the terms.

For some giving feels better than receiving, and for others it is the opposite. They are takers. For that reason I have switched to donating to charities that help homeless eat, feed, and cloth. Rather than a direct contribution to the individual and there possible/probable addictions.

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by Dustin07 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:31 am

regarding the homeless issues, I have heard of shelters recommending that you hand out bus passes and whatnot so that the homeless can get to the shelter for help. During this time of year I especially get that. Its cold and they have shelter.

What you could do, what I have done, is simply stock up on food in the car and give them to them if you can't do much else. I used to drive past a particular place in Seattle that always had a couple out there. I'd hit mcdonalds on my way and leave them with a meal. Its a small token, but its something.

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by racfish » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:05 pm

I went back out to find this guy. I found him. I took him to Subway for food. We talked for a while.He said no one has given him the time of day.He thanked me multiple times. I gave him my phone number to call if he needs a place to stay during this nasty weather. I gave him a 10 spot.So now we'll see if he calls. I told him he could do work for me to pay for his rent if he decides to accept my offer.He seemed like a nice enough guy. I feel good now. I feel like I can make a difference in a persons life. I hope he accepts my offer.This time of year is all about giving.

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by TroutSnipr » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:22 pm

Way back in the day I worked at the original Deja Vu across from SeaTac Mall as a bouncer to pay my way through school @ UW. We would watch this guy panhandle all day and then walk to the back parking lot in the evening and open the trunk to a 3 year old Mercedes, change his clothes and drive away. Still I have a tendency to give money anyway. It was insane when I lived on Capitol Hill a few years ago when they had run all the transients out of the waterfront and Pioneer Square areas and they all started living on Broadway. You literally passed 20 or 30 panhandlers per block between the college and the QFC. They were doing several varieties of illegal activities in the entryway to my underground parking and there were discarded needles everywhere. It made me move from the area it had gotten so bad.

The worst for me is the people who panhandle with animals. I feel so sorry for the sad looking dogs (and maybe that makes me a bad person for feeling more compassion for the animals than the people) that I often go to the store and buy a small sack of dog food for the animal and return with it and give the person nothing.
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Re: Homelessnes

Post by romanfishing » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:33 pm

I am a Russian immigrant. Came to the states when I was 25 and had two children. Had no money or even English to get a good job. I went through hard times going to college and getting three more children, but was able to get AA degree, then Bachelor degree from WSU. It was possible because I didn't mess my relationship with God by doing drugs, drinking alcohol, and etc. I was investing every cent in my education and had no fun for years. I work for Boeing as an Industrial Engineer now and going to Everett Jail every week, at least on Mondays, testifying people that everything is possible with God!
God Bless America! :cheers:

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by Mike Carey » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:45 am

romanfishing wrote:I am a Russian immigrant. Came to the states when I was 25 and had two children. Had no money or even English to get a good job. I went through hard times going to college and getting three more children, but was able to get AA degree, then Bachelor degree from WSU. It was possible because I didn't mess my relationship with God by doing drugs, drinking alcohol, and etc. I was investing every cent in my education and had no fun for years. I work for Boeing as an Industrial Engineer now and going to Everett Jail every week, at least on Mondays, testifying people that everything is possible with God!
God Bless America! :cheers:
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Re: Homelessnes

Post by Dustin07 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:57 am

TroutSnipr wrote:Way back in the day I worked at the original Deja Vu across from SeaTac Mall as a bouncer to pay my way through school @ UW. We would watch this guy panhandle all day and then walk to the back parking lot in the evening and open the trunk to a 3 year old Mercedes, change his clothes and drive away. Still I have a tendency to give money anyway. It was insane when I lived on Capitol Hill a few years ago when they had run all the transients out of the waterfront and Pioneer Square areas and they all started living on Broadway. You literally passed 20 or 30 panhandlers per block between the college and the QFC. They were doing several varieties of illegal activities in the entryway to my underground parking and there were discarded needles everywhere. It made me move from the area it had gotten so bad.

The worst for me is the people who panhandle with animals. I feel so sorry for the sad looking dogs (and maybe that makes me a bad person for feeling more compassion for the animals than the people) that I often go to the store and buy a small sack of dog food for the animal and return with it and give the person nothing.
when I was about 18-20 my wife (then girlfriend) and I never had a problem giving a few bucks to pan handlers. I was often chastised for doing so. I remember when a family member said it was stupid because they'll just buy beer. He said one time he saw a bum holding a sign that said, "why lie, I need a beer" and he was going to give HIM money. so my wife replies, "oh, so you don't give money to the people begging for food because they'll spend it on beer, but you gladly give money to the guy just looking to get drunk?" lol. She can be witty at times...

but we were down on the pier in seattle and this guy comes up to me with his kids. same story everyone has heard. down on their luck, trying to catch the train home to portland, no cash, wallet stolen, etc, can you spare $10... well I think I gave him like $40 and walked away, didn't think twice about it. my wife saw him and the kids walk over to the aquarium and have a nice father-sons day looking at fishies that I paid for............. :fish:

My take? That's between him and God. I was asked to help, and I did. I try to when I can. Some people truly are down on their luck. Why don't they help themselves? Some just don't want to. Some just don't know how. Some are completely lost in a world of depression, drug abuse, booze, or worse. everyone has a different story. But at the end of the night, I drive my hemi home and sleep in a big house with my wife and son, so I have no place to judge or complain.

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by romanfishing » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:34 am

I completely agree on your position "My take? That's between him and God. I was asked to help, and I did. I try to when I can. Some people truly are down on their luck. Why don't they help themselves? Some just don't want to. Some just don't know how. Some are completely lost in a world of depression, drug abuse, booze, or worse. everyone has a different story. But at the end of the night, I drive my hemi home and sleep in a big house with my wife and son, so I have no place to judge or complain."
I have to admit it is hard to stand on such position and keep giving/sharing, but we should do it no-matter what. For years some people come to me and say "why you do this when you have 5 kids you have to take care, worry about your family, anyway nobody changes". However, I am still seeding good word for those who need it/love the most. That's between them and God, to accept it or not. In turn, God never failed or let me down because I am serving Him doing the work for Him. :)

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by racfish » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:44 am

Wow Sniper. My ex wife and another good friend of mine worked the Deja Vue club as dancers. I saw what you wrote and my coffee came up from laughter. Those were some fun days. LOL... On the homeless issue. I gave this guy my first name and phone number. I told him he could stay at my pad till he got back on his own. I never got a call back. I didnt think I would. Some younger people dont want help. Maybe they've been burned before by older people so they dont trust. Too bad..

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by gonnahookit » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:52 pm

Here is another take on homelessness, and forgive me for the length of this diatribe but this hits close to home for me, and is coming from someone who spent 3 years living on the streets of various Puget Sound cities.

There are those who truly are down on their luck, for whatever reason, but usually due to loss of a job. They are in the vast minority. That was me for the first few months I was on the street (but for a different reason, and I was only 16 when I first ended up there).

the vast MAJORITY of people living on the streets, CHOOSE to be there. Why?

Simple.

The amazing amount of social programs and people willing to help them make it easy to not be responsible for themselves. Why SHOULD they, when someone else will take care of their basic needs, like food and clothing (and shelter at times) among other things. Such as the cell phones now.

People would brag about how easy it was. It's changed since the late `80s when I was on the streets, but after a few months, I learned how easy it was, too. And I got sucked into it.

After the first few months of being on the streets, for roughly 2 and a half years more, I never paid rent. I never paid a phone bill. I never paid for electricity. Or gasoline. Or food. I got my dental work done for free at the community clinics. I got a physical each year for free at the community clinics. I got PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, painkillers, antibiotics, whatever, for FREE at the community clinics.

I even tried to get the then-infamous "drunk-check", which was about $325-$450 (in 1988 dollars) depending on which state you went too to get it. One guy I traveled with took me from Washington, to Oregon. From Oregon, to California. From California to Nevada. From Nevada to Idaho. And then back to Seattle. He collected a "drunk-check" (free money because of his alcoholic "disability") from each state.

All for free on freight trains. All within 15 days. The next month he did it again. He had been doing it for nearly 5 years at that point.

I learned how to watch when McDonalds and Burger King (and all the other fast food joints out there) would take the trash out. They throw their burgers away after an hour or so, but hey, it's free food, and most times it was still warm.

The only thing I ever paid for in that whole time frame was the alcohol I drank. Funny thing was, I couldn't get on the drunk-check program in any of these states. I wasn't "old enough to be an alcoholic" (as I was told in more than one social services office), even though I repeatedly went in there drunk and reeking of alcohol. T-bird was the norm.

So I "suffered" with just getting free food stamps. That I bought nickel or dime candy with, to break it into change so I could, yes, buy more alcohol. Things have changed with the EBT card, but still. If you need public assistance to buy food, perhaps you should be shopping at someplace other than Papa Murphys or Dominos for your food.

Dont get me wrong. I am a compassionate person. But I've lived on both sides of the tracks, and I've spent many years since then breaking my back (literally AND figuratively) working to better myself and my life. And now I am driven even more-so because of my 3 yr old son. I also know for a fact, that most of the people out there on the streets do not deserve my compassion, because they continue to use and abuse the system that keeps trying to help them get back up.

They don't want to get back up. They like it right where they are, being taken care of, with no responsibilities except learning how to better scam from willing, generous people who truly want to help.

And it truly makes me sick to my stomach to see little kids out there on the street. They dont deserve to be out there. But I saw many, MANY mothers and fathers using their kids as pawns to make people like you and I (at least where I am now in life) feel sorry for them. And teaching their kids how to do the same, keeping the cycle going, creating generations of people with entitlement mentalities which is only going to make things worse in the long run. For all of us.

Ok, off my soapbox now.

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by MotoBoat » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:07 am

gonnahookit, enlightening read. From the perspective of someone who lived, breathed, and embraced, during several years of homelessness.

I, for one appreciate you honesty, without prejudice. Most in the system would praise it. You appear to discourage the ease in which programs encourages homelessness.

The time spent on the street. What percentage of people you came in contact. Were not willing to change there way of life. Due to being "sucked in"?

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by sickbayer » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:42 am

For those who think they should get rid of the entitlement society, what's your solution? I personally believe their are bad eggs in every level of society/class taking advantage of the system. I don't give money to homeless as its a society issue and should be dealt with by the governments.

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by Mike Carey » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:57 pm

sickbayer wrote:For those who think they should get rid of the entitlement society, what's your solution? I personally believe their are bad eggs in every level of society/class taking advantage of the system. I don't give money to homeless as its a society issue and should be dealt with by the governments.
I'm not in favor of removing it, however, it needs way more oversite. And as a country we need to have an honest discussion on priorities. WIth a trillion dollar a year deficit for the past four years is it really fair to our childern and grandchildren to pile on more debt so low income people can have cell phones? Is that really how we want to spend our children's money?
I fear that entitilments are really a way to secure votes, and the more our country becomes impoverished the more low income votes become available. It turns into a steady spiral down, and I don't see a solution when politicians put getting re-elected ahead of the country's fiscal health.
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Re: Homelessnes

Post by sickbayer » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:27 pm

Mike Carey wrote:
sickbayer wrote:For those who think they should get rid of the entitlement society, what's your solution? I personally believe their are bad eggs in every level of society/class taking advantage of the system. I don't give money to homeless as its a society issue and should be dealt with by the governments.
I'm not in favor of removing it, however, it needs way more oversite. And as a country we need to have an honest discussion on priorities. WIth a trillion dollar a year deficit for the past four years is it really fair to our childern and grandchildren to pile on more debt so low income people can have cell phones? Is that really how we want to spend our children's money?
I fear that entitilments are really a way to secure votes, and the more our country becomes impoverished the more low income votes become available. It turns into a steady spiral down, and I don't see a solution when politicians put getting re-elected ahead of the country's fiscal health.
More over sight? so your asking for bigger government to oversee or private company paid via tax payer throwing more money away?
Honest disscussion on priorities, so those with less go at the bottom of the pile?
The trillion dollar a year debt can be reduced by huge reduction of mititary spending or a fairer tax system, even a means to stop corperations from offshore banking and avoiding paying any taxes would do far more in lowering that debt compared to cutting some of the safety nets in place for the vunerable.
And talk about your childerns money who needs to worry about the government debt when they can go to Unveristy and come out with 100.000 plus in debt just to get a frigging degree in business or finance and hopefully land a job for 30k a year.

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by Bodofish » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:22 am

It all boils down to history. Those who don't study it are condemned to repeat it. There is this thing called Anarchy that seems to rear it's ugly head from time to time. Anarchy shows up when a disproportionate amount of the wealth gets stuck at the top and those at the bottom for whatever reason are not having basic needs met. In recent times Nixon averted it with the introduction of Welfare to quell the Watts Rebellion. We're quickly heading down that road again, OK boys and girls, break out the pitch forks and the torches and grease up the guillotine.
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Re: Homelessnes

Post by gonnahookit » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:52 am

MotoBoat wrote:gonnahookit, enlightening read. From the perspective of someone who lived, breathed, and embraced, during several years of homelessness.

I, for one appreciate you honesty, without prejudice. Most in the system would praise it. You appear to discourage the ease in which programs encourages homelessness.

The time spent on the street. What percentage of people you came in contact. Were not willing to change there way of life. Due to being "sucked in"?
I would say 75% or more. And as Nate mentioned before, even showing people the way out/off the streets, some wont take advantage of the oppurtunities. It's to much work, because it involves more work down the road.

Dont get me wrong. it isn't by any means EASY being on the streets. A lot of days it is a struggle to survive.

But the fact that you dont have to actually WORK and be responsible (pay taxes and bills) means many would rather take the easy way out.

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by racfish » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:53 am

Im not in favor of putting our money into cell phones either, Thats a total waste of taxpayer money in my opinion. What I saw was a younger man 17-23 Id guess. He was shivering and sopping wet begging in the rain. My heart felt low for him. Homelessness isnt easy but living and supporting a family is harder.I dont usually fall prey to the corner "sign beggars" . This one time I did. I offered to help I offered him a place to stay, I offered him work. I never heard back from him. Oh well. For some people begging is easy. They know working is much harder then begging.

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Re: Homelessnes

Post by Bodofish » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:52 pm

Ralphie, the bottom line is, you saw someone in need and you went out of your way to help. In my opinion, you get a huge gold star on your forehead for that. We certainly don't have enough random acts of kindness these days. We just don't have enough of them, ultimately those random acts are what are going to lift us as a society to the next level of enlightenment, putting behind us the atrocities that are committed daily around the world.
No I take that back, you don't deserve a gold star, you deserve two of them. [wink]
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Re: Homelessnes

Post by Mike Carey » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:30 pm

sickbayer, Christmas Eve, sorry, not getting into it with you. Nope, not gonna do it, no way, no how, not going down that rabbit hole. No energy or desire. Consider your argumentative skills to have silenced me absolutely with no ability whatsoever to respond with a shred of a coherent argument.

=D>

Merry Christmas.
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