NOTICE to all Pike Fishermen

[Fish-N-Fool]

HOw would one use a two pole endorsment for pike? Trolling? Cause the only other option I can think would be bobber fishing with bait. Wouldn't that cause a higher mortality rate (yes, I know WDFW wouldn't have a problem with that)?

Not a problem for the eaters but if you bait catch a 15 pounder and hook it deep it's deep fryer time.

I have fished with bait quite a bit at times, mainly in the winter and I have never hurt a fish using a dead bait. The whole key to fishing dead bait is don't let the fish run with the bait for 10 minutes like some guys do. If you wait that long to set the hook you will have a gut hooked fish every time. When I fish bait I set the hook after the bobber stays down about 5 seconds. Yes I miss a lot of fish, but I have never gut hooked one, and all but a few eaters that I kept for other people have been released unharmed. I'd rather miss all the fish then gut hook a big pike, so it's a trade off I''m willing to take. I use a small treble hook as a stinger and it helps with hookups some and I land about 1 out of every 5 fish that bite.
Where I can use the 2 poles, I fish one rod with a bait and cast the other with a lure. I don't ever dead bait after about mid April and switch to one rod as I find I can get just as many fish on lures and by then I want to move around more. Dead bait pretty much keeps you stuck in one spot.
So if you use a little common sense there is no reason that dead bait fishing will be any more harmful to the fish then fishing a swimbait or other lures. You just can't let them run with the bait forever like I see some of the bank fisherman do. Most of them will let the bobber go down let it pop back up and let it do down 2 or 3 times before they ever try to set the hook. When fishing swimbaits Pike tend to take them deep at times as well, but in my years of pike fishing I have only had one fish that I felt was to badly injured to release and it was off a Swimbait in late spring.

[Fish-N-Fool]

Mike, That's a very good question! I would have wondered the same if I hadn't successfully caught bass last year at Stan Coffin
by hanging my second rod with FnF's worm at the end. Pain in the arss at times, but, it produced fish none the less. I drifted down the lake dragging one bait while casting the other.

LOL I do the same thing here in Idaho all the time and have gotten some real toads this way. I will do this sometimes then the fishing is slow in the big lake and cast a crank for Smallies with one rod and dead stick a Sink-N-Fool on the other. You get a few double headers at times which can be a problem at times, but a good problem!!! I even hooked a giant Dolly Varden (AKA Bull trout) on a Sink-N-Fool and a 14" Smallmouth on a crankbait doing this one day right in front of a game warden. LOL He watched me land and release both fish before he came over to checkout my 2 pole license.

[YJ Guide Service]

We are in the process of contacting legislators since it was our understanding that and rule changes such as those had to go through them first before they could become law. When we wrote them originally they told us to let them know after the comittee accepted them so they could look for the proposals. I guess well see...

[MarkFromSea]

We are in the process of contacting legislators since it was our understanding that and rule changes such as those had to go through them first before they could become law. When we wrote them originally they told us to let them know after the comittee accepted them so they could look for the proposals. I guess well see...

Then now is the time to mobilize the troops so to speak. Who do you need to be contacted, which legislators, is there a reference number or strictly subject of fish regulation change on Pend Oreille, 2nd pole and delisting of pike from game fish status?

Why would they delist pike and not squaw fish? That is just frigin stupid!

Short history, Whitefish Lake, MT all verbal from relatives: 50 years ago silvers and mountain whitefish were easy targets, plentiful. Macs were introduced and quickly consumed the biomass. Fishing wasn't so good anymore.... Macs are deep, your average angler didn't catch them, the fish that the average angler did catch declined greatly. The macs that were caught weren't good table fare when compared to "flats", silvers. In recent years pike have invaded and now there aren't even lakers to catch......
The above is all verbal, I haven't read anything to support or discredit it. Just pointing out, this might be one of those playing with fire sort of things..... There is a real fear of these pike, they've traveled quite a ways fairly quickly. The fear of bucket biologists is also warranted. That's how pike got into Whitefish in the first place. It would be AWESOME if the pike could stay put in Box Canyon and not spread, but they are spreading and quickly. If I don't make it over to the Pend Oreille to fish them soon, if I wait long enough, I'll be able to catch them right here in Lake Washington due to a bucket biologist or two.

[Mark K]

We are in the process of contacting legislators since it was our understanding that and rule changes such as those had to go through them first before they could become law. When we wrote them originally they told us to let them know after the comittee accepted them so they could look for the proposals. I guess well see...

Then now is the time to mobilize the troops so to speak. Who do you need to be contacted, which legislators, is there a reference number or strictly subject of fish regulation change on Pend Oreille, 2nd pole and delisting of pike from game fish status?

Why would they delist pike and not squaw fish? That is just frigin stupid!

Short history, Whitefish Lake, MT all verbal from relatives: 50 years ago silvers and mountain whitefish were easy targets, plentiful. Macs were introduced and quickly consumed the biomass. Fishing wasn't so good anymore.... Macs are deep, your average angler didn't catch them, the fish that the average angler did catch declined greatly. The macs that were caught weren't good table fare when compared to "flats", silvers. In recent years pike have invaded and now there aren't even lakers to catch......
The above is all verbal, I haven't read anything to support or discredit it. Just pointing out, this might be one of those playing with fire sort of things..... There is a real fear of these pike, they've traveled quite a ways fairly quickly. The fear of bucket biologists is also warranted. That's how pike got into Whitefish in the first place. It would be AWESOME if the pike could stay put in Box Canyon and not spread, but they are spreading and quickly. If I don't make it over to the Pend Oreille to fish them soon, if I wait long enough, I'll be able to catch them right here in Lake Washington due to a bucket biologist or two.

This is the exact reason all of these efforts should be focused DOWN STREAM from Box canyon! If they wait too long you may be right. I just may be Pike fishing with you on Lake Washington! Like I said before, MY opinion is the reason they are concentrated so hard on Box Canyon is because the Kallispels want to be involved in this because there is money to be had. If the focus was where it should be (down stream) the Kallispels couldn't dip their hands in the pot.

[MarkFromSea]

I respect your opinion. If there is money in it for them, if this is a ploy to line their pockets in some way rather than earnestly assist the overall fishery of the Pend Oreille, then, I hope they get busted wide open and stopped. Who will be paying the Kallispells, state, fed or both?

[Fish-N-Fool]

Yes the Feds are paying them and it's a lot. That's the only reason the Kalispel's tribe is voicing a concern about the Pike taking over is so they can keep getting paid. The feds have targeted 500 million dollars to go toward this and other efforts to save Salmon runs in the Columbia river system. That's why they want a piece of the pie!! Because it's a big pie.

[MarkFromSea]

That's a very big pie! 3/4s of it will be wasted in administration with no actual work performed. I hope they do the right thing with what's left over.

Hey Rick, you still owe me a fishin trip.. LOL What was it, high water last early summer and then I disappeared for a few months to work out of state. Is it still a go? When's a good time to tie into some pike?

Added later: My memory is shot Rick, sorry about that, before I left last Sept, I handed the trip to the next guy in line. By rights it's his since I passed on it due to work.

[AJ's Dad]

The money that most of us are referring to when we say "It's all about the money" is not from the feds. It's power company dollars. The millions of dollars we are talking about is money the power companies are alloting to help maintain and enhance the salmon runs. Relieveing issues created by the installation of the dams. Things like building fish ladders etc. My guess is that now they will start using some of those dollars to gillnet pike.

[Fish-N-Fool]

I hope to see you all at the WDFW Pike meeting tonite at the Center place in the Spokane Valley.
I heard about a rather interesting Article that John Campbell, owner of the Pend Oreille Valley Sportsman sporting goods store in Newport, Wa. did in the February "Northwest Sportsman" magazine called "Another Take on Pend Oreille Pike." He comments on WDFW's handling of the northern pike in this article. I hope to find a copy of this Magazine to bring to tonite's meeting.
I also found this story the editor of the magazine did on the State, Tribe Settle On Three-pronged Pike Approach. Read it here.

http://nwsportsmanmag.com/2012/02/06/st ... -approach/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MarkFromSea]

The money that most of us are referring to when we say "It's all about the money" is not from the feds. It's power company dollars. The millions of dollars we are talking about is money the power companies are alloting to help maintain and enhance the salmon runs. Relieveing issues created by the installation of the dams. Things like building fish ladders etc. My guess is that now they will start using some of those dollars to gillnet pike.

I read about another of these projects, White River near Lake Wenatchee..... Seems like some obvious flaws to that plan.

So I started poking around at AND near the Kallispel site: http://www.kalispeltribe.com/non-native ... ppression/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , it does look like some wording has been adjusted to include the term "Salmonid" as many times as possible. Since they refer to bull trout and cutthroat trout primarily, even though salmonid is correct, trout or even char would be more correct in my opinion. There is an inordinate number of usages of the term "salmonid." As if they are talking about salmon. Those "Dam" dollars are supposed to go mostly to salmon..... I agree that this looks like more of a ploy for the Kalispells to put their hands on the "dam" dollars from the power companies. Since they are from power companies, we're all paying for it, at least those of us who consume anything, yeah, we're ALL paying for it! I'd like to see the dollars be spent stopping the pike a bit further downstream first, see how it goes, adjust as needed. I think Kalispells administering funds for pike control is a POOR choice of an efficient work force. Poor value for the money.

[MarkFromSea]

Looking further into the Kallispels website, I find that it is wrought with inconsistencies. The "hatchery" section shows large mouth bass as their focus species....... as a "subsistence" fishery! What, are you kidding me?!!!!! LOL I recall discussions here at WA Lakes, bass eat trout species,,, period!

On the two pole endorsement,,,, even though I am a two pole proponent I see an obvious conflict: The two pole endorsement isn't supposed to be usable in waters with ESA listed species even if they are lakes, ponds or reservoirs..... LOL guess what? "include ESA listed species such as bull trout" bull trout are ESA listed.

No mention of gill nets at Kallispel site: "Management actions to remove non-native fish include using pesticides and physical removal using electro-fishing equipment."

[Natebg1]

To any Pike Anglers interested, here are a few weblink's that will bring you to information from both the 2010 and 2011 Gill Net Surveys and Dates of Gill netting on the Pend Oreille River (Box Canyon). Doesn't specify what areas of the River but it gives an idea of the top periods when Pike were being caught the most. The disappointing thing was that the major periods were during the Spring so the major spawning opportunities were more than likely affected by these netting periods. See information in weblinks. So it definetely looks like Spring Fishing could be a tough go on the Pend Oreille, but I look forward to getting out and catching and releasing a few, hopefully a few monsters are still left. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/ais/html/esox_lucius ... ummary.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://wdfw.wa.gov/ais/html/esox_lucius ... ummary.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Nate

[AJ's Dad]

Nate,
Thanks for the links. The charts you posted are a couple of the ones they had at the meeting in the Spokane Valley. The information is interesting but unfortunately, comparing the two spin studies to each other is like studying two different bodies of water, for a few reasons. One is the water levels and the other is the additional area they studied.

I believe the water levels at the time of the studies was much higher in 2011 then it was in 2010. That high water level had pike scattered into areas that often times don't see water, giving the fish more places to hide from the gillnets. I went in to one slough in May that had water farther back in the flooded fields than I have seen in the 5 years I have fished the river. I was a bit intimidated when I saw all that 1 to 2 foot water that was available to the fish. If that happens again this year I won't be intimidated, I will fish it more!

As far as the area studied compared to the quantity of nets they set. It appears that they actually set fewer nets in 2011 than they did in 2010. The data for 2010 shows 60 nets in the southern half and an additional 12 nets north of riverbend. In 2011 it only shows 60 nets spread throughout the entire reservoir. Using fewer overall nets and keeping some of them in the areas that have a lower density of pike population only makes for data that can not accurately be compared from one year to the next.


If the data in the document that compares the studies from 2010 and 2011 is in fact complately accurate. I do see a positive trend from a fishermans standpoint. From 2010 to 2011 there appears to be a sharp decline in the amount of gillnets being set for the SPIN studies in the river, 72 in 2010 -vs- 60 in 2011, and the SPIN studies are killing fewer pike, 755 (+ how ever many were caught north of river bend) in 2010 -vs- 566 in 2011. I for one find that encouraging.

Hopefully they won't be able to determine what has caused such a high mortality rate for gillnets. Then again maybe they will ask for more money to do a study on that.(and buy more gillnets)

The last thing I noticed looking closer at the charts is that there was a measureble number of West Slope Cutthroat showing on the Bycatch report graph. To me that menas they actually killed some of the very fish they are trying to protect. I wonder how many West Slope Cutthroats have been found in the bellies of the pike they have sampled. We certainly have not seen any photos or reports of them pouring out of those bellies. The only photos I have seen have shown scads of sunfish, perch and the occasional bass or two.


Happy Fishing everyone

[River-haven]

I've noticed a lot of discussion over the source of funding for the various gill net/shocking surveys conducted on the Box Canyon Reservoir. During the public meeting I couldn't help but notice the BPA (Bonneville Power Administration) logo on the bottom of one of the charts that the Kalispel Tribe had inplace. The chart explained the results of one of their gill netting surveys. Upon doing a little research on the BPA website I came across the following link to the Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) between the BPA and the Kalispel Tribe (you'll probably have to copy and paste the link to your browser):
http://www.salmonrecovery.gov/ColumbiaB ... Tribe.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you go to the link and open "Atch A" you'll find what I believe to be a major source of the funding. Under Item 6 "Pend Oreille Non-native Fish Suppression Project" it shows $403,750 per year is being proposed for the next 10 years totaling over $4 Million. If you check out Atch B it explains how the money will be spent on fish suppression projects in the Pend Oreille Subbasin including Box Canyon and Priest Lake.
These so called "fish suppression" actions could be why the WDFW wants to delist the pike as a "gamefish" and to make it a "prohibited" species...but, that's just speculation on my part.

[AJ's Dad]

Riverhaven,
Nice job locating those documents!!!
The point has been made by myself and others on this website that we feel this ENTIRE pike issue is one based on $$$MONEY$$$ The documents you have refrenced are proof that what we have said is exactly right. I was reading attachment A showing where all the proposed monies would be going. Over $10 million over the next 10 years going directly to the projects of the Kalispel Tribe. Over 4 million of that for the "Fish Supression" project. That my friends will buy a lot of gill nets.

If you want to fish for pike in the Pacific Northwest, you better start saving your money to buy an Idaho fishing license because Northern Pike are about to become a THING OF THE PAST.

At the meeting in the Spokane Valley the WDFW assured us all that they have been listening to what the fishermen have had to say. What this tells us is that they have heard us, but they simply don't care and are going to do exactly what they want. These documents show the dollars that will now go towards the Kalispels efforts to rid the POR of pike but as we all know the Kalispels and the WDFW are on the same team.

Too bad for us eh?

[Lucius]

It does sound like any trophy pike that exist in there now will be gone in the next year or two. Although I don't believe they will get the population of smaller fish under control. With the smaller fish being able to pass through the nets (also smaller pike) all the little pike will start sexually maturing faster and then you will have thousands of smaller fish spawning only further promoting a smaller recruit class every year. Yeah the bigger pike can have excess of 600,000 eggs but with the numbers of small pike, it only takes a few to make up that many and then some. I read an article (from minnesota I believe) that of a 100 acre lake with pike in them, there are 800 smaller pike and only 60 large pike..... I would not be surprised to see the numbers of even smaller pike increase. 60-70 fish days of pike smaller than 20"....wouldn't surprise me at all!!!


Funny thing about money....it makes the world go round...

[Mark K]

Riverhaven,
Over $10 million over the next 10 years going directly to the projects of the Kalispel Tribe. Over 4 million of that for the "Fish Supression" project. That my friends will buy a lot of gill nets.

And this is exactly why the Kalispel tribe finds it that this issue is so important in Box Canyon, so THEY can be involved with the pay day. That money would be much better spent in Boundary and beyond... Jason Connor said last year that "Every pike I net is possibly 100,000 less Pike I have to deal with next year". That statement is true, so in these terms wouldn't you think that ONE pike taken out of Boundary even if it is much harder to catch is worth more than one Pike in Box Canyon where there is already a very established population? What happens when there is a good year class in Boundary? Just one step closer to encroachment on the Columbia...

[Lucius]

And this is exactly why the Kalispel tribe finds it that this issue is so important in Box Canyon, so THEY can be involved with the pay day. That money would be much better spent in Boundary and beyond... Jason Connor said last year that "Every pike I net is possibly 100,000 less Pike I have to deal with next year". That statement is true, so in these terms wouldn't you think that ONE pike taken out of Boundary even if it is much harder to catch is worth more than one Pike in Box Canyon where there is already a very established population? What happens when there is a good year class in Boundary? Just one step closer to encroachment on the Columbia...

It seems like a numbers game to me. A pike with 100,000 eggs is a pretty decent fish....my question is how many smaller fish now sexually mature due to the fact that that decent pike is now removed from the ecosystem? Considering the stat of 100 acres has 800 smaller pike and only 60...13 small pike for every big pike that means the smaller pike would only have to produce about 7,700 eggs to equate to that one bigger fish being removed. I think that number is very easily obtainable if not more.

[Natebg1]

Well if the WDFW and the Kalispel think that by getting more gillnets and trying to suppress, I mean eradicate the Pike from the Pend Oreille is the answer then we obviously see where the intelligence level is in regards to this issue unless of course it is all about $$MONEY$$, then it all makes perfect sense!

Why would the focus be upriver if the same problem is occurring down river? I might just have to go and try the next dam down from Box Canyon and see what all the hype is about since the WDFW and the Kalispel don't seem to be focused on this area. I am sure if people are right on what they are saying, there are a ton of BIG OLD PIKE waiting to hit a lure or two past Box Canyon. Not sure what the rules are with fishing that area yet, but I am certainly willing to look into it. I am certainly not going to sit back and not take full advantage of the opportunities that are currently available since Big Pike may soon be a thing of the past in Washington, but at least I will have as many edible ones as I want and maybe I can help by throwing a few back that might have a chance to grow to a decent size. Either way it is very disappointing from an angling standpoint to not get the full truth or the whole story behind why this is taking place, especially considering we all already know why. This is why I can't say it enough, if you are serious about wanting to change the Pike Fishery in Washington and the Pend Oreille River then contact your local, State and National Politicians who have any say in this State and Region and fight for what you believe is the right choice.

I would never want to see anything bad or terrible happen to the Salmon and Steelhead fishery within the Columbia River, however the manmade damage already created is 10 times worse than what any Pike would ever do to a Salmon and Steelhead Population. First the Salmon and Steelhead are much to quick, travel in to strong of a current and in most river systems don't stay put long enough for a Pike to ever Prey on them to begin with. And this notion of trying to compare what the Pike have done in Alaska to the Salmon Fishery and what it could do here are completely polar opposites. When all Pike have to feed on is one or two types of fish, of course they are going to eat the Salmon and Trout. However if a Pike has Perch, Panfish, Walleye and suckers or Northern Pike minnows to feast on, they will eat those before they would ever eat Salmon or Steelhead. The last thing that a Pike would ever go after is a Salmon or Steelhead just because of its size. In most pictures of Pike within these blogs you will notice Pike with plenty of perch, crappie, and sunfish in there stomachs, however I have yet to see a picture from a Pend Oreille River Pike with anything other than these fish in its stomach which should tell you everything you need to know.

At this point it is up to the Pike Angling Community who want to see a change to take it all the way to the top and see what kind of impact can be made. Yes, they may have bigger fish to fry (No Pun intended) but they may be willing to listen and respond if the proper approach is taken. It is all in how you approach the situation and how you present the facts. Hopefully there is still time to make a difference otherwise Idaho will be where all of us will be going for our most enjoyable invasive species, The Northern Pike!

Nate