Proposed Lead Ban by WDFW

[bcalvert]

I am not usually an activist but his hits close to home for many of us anglers. There is a great thread on 'the other' WA fishing site. I do not condone or support the other site but this topic needs our involvement. Despite personal opinions about other fishing sites, I would ask that you take a look at this post and get involved by sending email testimony to the address provided in the original post.

http://www.wafish.com/group/bassfishing ... for-select

I do not have information to respond to any question about this. I personally think all Washington anglers should be aware of this and then react with your own judgment and actions.

Thanks for reading.

[bcalvert]

Here is a link to the report that WDFW is basing this proposal on.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/diversty/soc/sta ... nlloon.pdf

[Bigbass Dez]

Good Post BC , i emailed the WDFW rep that is a member on this site to comfirm this topic .. im currently awaiting for a reply .. I also have very strong concerns on this matter , i just want to make to sure that i express them to the correct parties and in the correct context ...will we see !

[Amx]

I sent an e-mail with links to the governor the other day, and the WDFW noting that I'd sent the e-mail to the gov.

[Bodofish]

Lead being a rather insidious killer in my opinion probably should be banned. It was banned from the hunting scene a number of years ago and they made it. It's already banned for fishing in a number of areas. As a substitute you can already purchase jig heads and sinkers made of silicon carbide which is heavier than lead. It will up the cost but I think the environmental benefits out weight the costs associated with going non lead.

[fishaholictaz]

Ya Bodo I am kind of with you on the support of the ban. We as fisherman have been starting to use alternatives because we agreed that lead was a harmful substance. Now when we are being told it is being banned it seems people want to use lead all of a sudden#-o

[bionic_one]

Banning led on a whopping 13 lakes.

Yeah, this one doesn't really warrant an argument. Go get some alternative weights. They make steel weights now too.

[bcalvert]

Here is my concern about this situation. Don't try to be sneaky about the agenda of banning lead. If the ultimate goal is to ban lead in WA lakes then do it. Don't hide behind a loon study and try to sneak in a ban on just a few lakes. After reading the loon study, I believe we should ban people living on the banks of lakes. That seems to be one of the causes to the drop in breeding.

If the concern is the health and safety of the loons then deal with the larger problems that seem to be detrimental to the birds. The report states that fishing line has been the cause of loon deaths as well. Are we going to ban fishing line also?

If lead is the true issue, then be upfront about it and push that agenda. "We want to ban lead because lead is toxic." not "We want to ban lead because it may have had an impact on a small number of birds that migrate to the state" If the studies and the data show that this action should be taken i would support it. But I do not think that this report has that many well documented cases to justify action at this time.

[Bigbass Dez]

Keep in mind here guys that there is more to this then just banning lead use in freshwater . There are indicating that the purpose of this propsal was due to the lead being found in loons by way of loss tackle from anglers .. I take that as them accusing "ALL" freshwater anglers as the direct cause of those birds deaths . I dont agree this is to be fair IMO , there are hunters that use buckshots , people that litter around lakes , etc . secondly this also based on a survey that has taking place between 1971 -1990 which 5 birds died due to fishing tackle found in there remains , what about the other 30+ bird WHO KILLED THOSE ?

So please at the point understand my concerns are directly related to the so-called responsible parties !! people kill people , no guns kill people , no ammo kills people , no the manufactors of gun and ammo kill people .. I just wanna know who got shot and by who because that who the police are looking for !!!

[fishaholictaz]

Like Bodo stated earlier lead has been banned for water fowl hunters for years . There were MANY studies showing the negative affects of lead. I guess I am not surprised that the ban is coming I am surprised though on the way they are doing it.

[gpc]

My problem with this is, there isnt a legitamate substitue for lead as an angler. Of coarse, there are other produts on the market, but they cant hold a candle to lead. There is nothing else that is that heavy, that cheap, or can be "transformed" like lead, nothing. Another thing, lead isnt even reconized by the Surgeon Genaral as a harmful product. There is a state of Califonia warning, not a sugeon genaral warning, you know the warnings on boose and tobaco and other products. Lead is in many ways is just like asbestos,harmful..... they can be (00.01% of a particle of asbestos can kill a human instantly, HEPA filter resporators filter out 99.99% of all ariborn particles, so even with a HEPA filter you still arnt safe) but there are no substitues known to man kind for either of these products. And yet they are still widley used, so if you are going to ban fieherman lead for the sake of birds, why arnt they banning the use of lead in general, for the sake of humans.......... if its that deadly.

[Anonymous]

Here's some articles on lead and fishing, and it's enviromental effects:

The Straight Dope article on lead sinkers

Cadian research article

Get the lead out of Fishing web site

USGS article


There's plenty more out there, but I think it's pretty clear the trend will be to see more banning of lead products such as fishing weights.

Lead is harmful to humans if ingested, which can occur a number of ways. Heck, I remember as a kid I always would bite my split shots open and closed - never knew or was told different. Which may explain some things in my life. :pale:

I seem to remember hearing or reading somewhere (sorry, can't source it) that lead weights in water are actually fairly inert, the problem as these articles report are the birds which will use small objects for digestion purposes. Like everything else man does, seems there are always trade-offs to consider. I do think that in this state lead bans would be a pretty easy public initiative to pass, kind of surprising it hasn't happened yet.

[Nik]

As a bass fisherman i moved to tungsten 3 years ago and never looked back. I wouldn't even consider using a lead sinker at this point; you lose so much on the feel and lead weights look huge now in comparison with tungsten. i'm positive i get far more bites using a small painted tungsten weight than i did using a larger silver lead weight. steel weights are complete garbage, you think of steel as a heavy metal but it is far less dense than lead so the weights are gigantic. although waterfowl hunting i would guess was a far worse offender than fishing in terms of the amount of lead pellets that were put in the water before they banned it, it makes sense to me that eventually a ban of lead fishing weights was going to come down the pipe.

as with most tackle, you get what you pay for. if you spend the money on quality hooks, line, and weights, it will pay off in the amount of bites as well as your catch ratio, i guarantee it.

[Mike Carey]

If lead is the true issue, then be upfront about it and push that agenda. "We want to ban lead because lead is toxic." not "We want to ban lead because it may have had an impact on a small number of birds that migrate to the state" If the studies and the data show that this action should be taken i would support it. But I do not think that this report has that many well documented cases to justify action at this time.

Agreed. I think this is like the issue a few years ago with hunting dogs for cougars. I think if it gets in front of the general public in the form of a referrendum it will be passed in this state. "lead in the enviroment" - the Puget Sound liberal belt will vote ban in a heartbeat. We're not at that point, but this definately is that proverbial camel nose.

[gpc]

[quote="Nik"]As a bass fisherman i moved to tungsten 3 years ago and never looked back. I wouldn't even consider using a lead sinker at this point]

Steel is garbage for fishing, and is a terrible substitute for lead. And it will rust, I know that cant be good for the environment. I think lead is too expensive, so tungsten is WAY out of my price range. I can buy lead ingots for 3.99 per lb, and get a bunch of free lead off demo jobs, I then am able to make my own weights.

Bodofish, care to elaborate on the weight material you mentioned?

[BMGW]

OK, I have heard the arguments for banning pro and con and I am steeped in this issue as we are sighting a world class shooting range in Clallam County. First of all you must understand that lead exists in the environment in it's natural state and is almost always present in most western bodies of water especially up North... Now lead is NOT toxic in and of itself, therefore one of two things has to happen to change lead to it's toxic form and that is a strong presence of acid in the water, in which case most life form would not survive, or it is simply ingested and therefore introduced into the bloodstream after the acids in the gizzard or stomach has changed it's elemental form. So where I have a problem is in the measuring the deceased for levels of lead. Lead is a "heavy metal" and our and most life forms cannot easily eliminate lead from the body, therefore it is stored up and when it get's to a high enough level well it can kill you. Sooooo, we can ban lead all we want to and this problem will not completly go away. I should think that what actually killed the Loon was not the lead but the hook... Now be very careful what you ask for!

[Bodofish]

As a bass fisherman i moved to tungsten 3 years ago and never looked back. I wouldn't even consider using a lead sinker at this point]

Steel is garbage for fishing, and is a terrible substitute for lead. And it will rust, I know that cant be good for the environment. I think lead is too expensive, so tungsten is WAY out of my price range. I can buy lead ingots for 3.99 per lb, and get a bunch of free lead off demo jobs, I then am able to make my own weights.

Bodofish, care to elaborate on the weight material you mentioned?

As for commercially prepaired fishing weights the ones I've seen and used are silicon carbide, it's actually heavier than lead. The water fowlers have been using bismuth (sp) as a lead substitute. I don't seem to use split shot much so I'm not really sure what I'd use. Kinda drifting right now, recovering from surgery so please excuse any spelling or drifting.....

[Bodofish]

OK, I have heard the arguments for banning pro and con and I am steeped in this issue as we are sighting a world class shooting range in Clallam County. First of all you must understand that lead exists in the environment in it's natural state and is almost always present in most western bodies of water especially up North... Now lead is NOT toxic in and of itself, therefore one of two things has to happen to change lead to it's toxic form and that is a strong presence of acid in the water, in which case most life form would not survive, or it is simply ingested and therefore introduced into the bloodstream after the acids in the gizzard or stomach has changed it's elemental form. So where I have a problem is in the measuring the deceased for levels of lead. Lead is a "heavy metal" and our and most life forms cannot easily eliminate lead from the body, therefore it is stored up and when it get's to a high enough level well it can kill you. Sooooo, we can ban lead all we want to and this problem will not completly go away. I should think that what actually killed the Loon was not the lead but the hook... Now be very careful what you ask for!

First off lead is extremely poisonous to all animals and to to say it's not is just wrong and a down right lie! Anyone that can even start to make a statement like that has never seen lead poisoning first hand. It is true that lead occurs naturally in the environment but not as a metal. Salt or Oxide which is stable when compared pure lead and unable to bond to blood and tissue cells in your body. Animals are not going to eat the ore but they will eat little pellets, birds especially will eat it for the grinding action in their gizzards along with small rocks. As with any heavy metal poisoning you don't have to eat it, all you have to do is come in contact the metal and a little bit is left behind, building and building until it reaches a toxic level. Obviously a loon is not capable of making the distinction between a small rock and lump of lead so, we as sportsmen and custodians of our great outdoors are the ones that have to look out for them.
Heavy metal poisoning is such a horrible way to suffer then die. There are too many available alternatives to think that not using lead will be an inconvenience and or cramp your style. And down to the bottom line, it really doesn’t matter how you measure it, animals still die from it.

[Nik]

i think what BMGW means is that a lead sinker sitting at the bottom of a lake is not inherently toxic unless it's ingested by a fish or bird or what have you. i don't think anyone would argue that lead is poisonous if it's ingested. that said the ban is because the weights or shot is ingested by birds, so the fact that it's not toxic unless it's ingested is sort of irrelevant.

[Gisteppo]

Whilst Im enjoying this little slapfight over whether lead is or is not toxic ( as an ingested item, yes. As a transmission up the food chain, yes. In a non-oxidized state away from air, no) the grander issue is the outcome.

If there is a known toxicity to a rare bird, its seeming simple to me, eliminate it from the area. Comparing all of the other weights available, lead has only two main factors: malleability and cost.

Steel can be malleable, it just requires more heat. Anyone serious about making their own goodies can use steel, you just need to up your foundry temps.

Steel is garbage for fishing, and is a terrible substitute for lead. And it will rust, I know that cant be good for the environment. I think lead is too expensive, so tungsten is WAY out of my price range. I can buy lead ingots for 3.99 per lb, and get a bunch of free lead off demo jobs, I then am able to make my own weights.

We use steel hooks so they will eventually rot out of saltwater fish's faces when we cut them off. Steel oxidizing in the water is actually a natural process, rendering the metal, and the oxide, inert. To have steel decay in water poses no water concern whatsoever.

So in essence the only complaint that anyone really can stand on is price.

Let's add up every weight you have in your tackle box. You might increase your tackle costs $50 in the price gap from lead to steel or lead to silicon. Tungsten is a pricey metal to throw in the water, but it is amazingly dense and effective for certain rigs.

Small price to pay for improving the habitat from which we harvest our fish.

E