moving Pike discussions to new Sub-forum of the Muskie Forum

[Mike Carey]

I've been asked by several people to seperate the pike discussions from the muskie forum. The recent pike discussions have been distracting to the purpose of the muskie forum, which is to talk about muskies. Pike fell into this forum because they looked similar so a thread got added on IDing the two species and next thing you know...

Anyway, to keep the topics seperate I have moved pike over to the Walleye and Panfish forum, so it now becomes the "Walleye, Pike, and Panfish" forum.

I'll move threads over to that forum and ask that people use it to post on pike subjects.

Thanks everyone. :dj:


EDIT! We now have a Pike forum as a sub-forum of the Muskie Forum.

[Anglinarcher]

Good idea.

[Kfedka]

Pike deserves its own forum.:bounce: That "Walleye, Pike, and Panfish" well get to cluttered.

[sparky1doug]

Thank you Mike. I hope everyone can keep their posts civil, respectful and well thoughtout. We are at a very sensitive point in the public meeting process.

[Rich McVey]

Interesting, Looks to me that it is the people that sponsor the Muskie forum that are having all the Pike conversations and tournaments.

Why disrespect Pike by lumping them with the pan fish and walleye?

Just curious.

[KUP]

Thanks, Mike. I like your idea. It's simple and it makes sense. :bball:

[Mark K]

Doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever.

[dougw]

I don't find this to be an appropriate move. Pike are definitely not muskie, and muskie are definitely not pike....BUT, Tiger muskie are technically 1/2 pike and 1/2 muskie. A majority of the discussion here on pike were talked about by members of BOTH forum sponsors, which are chapter 57 and chapter 60.

Upon review of the last year's worth of forum posts, 15 topics were related directly to pike. The last year* covers approximately 6 pages, and there are 25 posts per page. That means that out of 150 posts, 10% were on the topic of pike. Is that really excessive? Of those, I think 4 of those posts referred to Chapter 57 and Chapter 60 pike tournaments. So does that mean chapters that sponsor a pike tournament can no longer post here about their upcoming tournament, just because it is for pike?

I guess bottom line, I am disappointed in seeing this move. I wish there had been some form of discussion among both Chapters PRIOR to this switch being made. Why would such a change be made without both Chapters representation/ voice?


*I would have went back further, but I wanted to show a true comparison of the last year, which is the approximate length of time Chapter 60 has been here. Chapter 60 has more accessible pike fishing than Chapter 57, so going back further would significantly reduce the percentage of pike related posts, in my opinion. But if you disagree, please feel free to count them and show me the error of my assumption.

[Lucius]

I don't find this to be an appropriate move. Pike are definitely not muskie, and muskie are definitely not pike....BUT, Tiger muskie are technically 1/2 pike and 1/2 muskie. A majority of the discussion here on pike were talked about by members of BOTH forum sponsors, which are chapter 57 and chapter 60.

Upon review of the last year's worth of forum posts, 15 topics were related directly to pike. The last year* covers approximately 6 pages, and there are 25 posts per page. That means that out of 150 posts, 10% were on the topic of pike. Is that really excessive? Of those, I think 4 of those posts referred to Chapter 57 and Chapter 60 pike tournaments. So does that mean chapters that sponsor a pike tournament can no longer post here about their upcoming tournament, just because it is for pike?

I guess bottom line, I am disappointed in seeing this move. I wish there had been some form of discussion among both Chapters PRIOR to this switch being made. Why would such a change be made without both Chapters representation/ voice?


*I would have went back further, but I wanted to show a true comparison of the last year, which is the approximate length of time Chapter 60 has been here. Chapter 60 has more accessible pike fishing than Chapter 57, so going back further would significantly reduce the percentage of pike related posts, in my opinion. But if you disagree, please feel free to count them and show me the error of my assumption.

I agree with your post DougW. But since it is mike carey's forum, I respect his decision. I also appreciate him letting us know it changed. Although I must say I would have to agree with kfedka's post on this thread about pike getting it's own forum. As of late there has been quite a lot of interest in the pike and has been busy enough to maintain it's own thread.

[dougw]

I meant no disrespect to Mike by posting what I did. Mike, I hope you don't take my post that way..... I just don't feel like the pike make up a significant portion of the conversation here. That being said, there are always posts in public forums which are not necessarily related to the forum title. A forum is a community, and this just happens to be the 'stomping grounds' of tiger muskie as well as pike fishermen. It is no different than if we were all gathered in a room talking about our experiences.

Again, Mike, I didn't intend to come off angry with your decision. This is your place, and we are guests here. I just feel like your opinion may have been swayed without representation of all involved. Opinions are a funny thing. Everyone has them. We don't have to agree with everyone, but we do need to at least acknowledge a differing opinion, and be respectful of someone else's.

[Lucius]

...Again, Mike, I didn't intend to come off angry with your decision. This is your place, and we are guests here. I just feel like your opinion may have been swayed without representation of all involved. Opinions are a funny thing. Everyone has them. We don't have to agree with everyone, but we do need to at least acknowledge a differing opinion, and be respectful of someone else's.

Well said doug!

[dougw]

Thanks Lucius!

[Mike Carey]

OK, now I think I just stepped in it. No offense taken on your posts everyone, just thickening up my skin a bit. I understand Passions run deep. How about this solution (didn't even know I could do it till I just looked):

Pike will have it's own forum, as a "sub-forum" of muskie.

I sure hope this makes everyone happy, because that is my fatal personality flaw, to try to make everyone happy.

I'll move the topics later...

[Amx]

Pike will have it's own forum, as a "sub-forum" of muskie.

Now THAT I like and can agree with.

As I mentioned to a Muskie person the other week, to most of us who know nothing or very little about pike or muskie think they are the same, just smaller and bigger than each other. They look the same, eat the same, eat the same lures, swim the same, live the same, marked almost the same. Same same. And they are a whole lot more like a muskie than any walleye I've seen.

[dougw]

Very well done Mike. I like your solution. Thank you very much for understanding. Many of our chapter 60 members are very passionate about both species. We draw a lot of our membership from both sides which makes it tough sometimes. We are first and foremost a muskie organization. But we do hold a handful of pike tournaments which helps maintain some degree of sanity. I think one has to be just a little crazy to chase solely muskie!

Thanks again Mike for maintaining a fine place where we can hold these discussions!

[Natebg1]

Mike,

Thank you for your understanding in this matter and realizing how all of us Pike Angler enjoy coming here to discuss matters with the Pike. Our passion goes very deep and comes from many years of fishing for these wonderful fish throughout many different parts of the country. Doug W. Thank you for staying true to who you are and having such a respect and understanding for all sides in these Pike discussions. As a proud and avid Muskie/Tiger Muskie angler, it still doesn't mean I too don't enjoy discussing Pike on this Forum and attending a tournament here and there. So I too appreciate you standing up for your feelings on this and am proud to stand next to all of you who love both Pike and Tiger Muskie! Remember they are ALL ESOX so there really shouldn't be a difference between one or the other when it comes to discussing what they are all about. Last I checked Fishing forums are made to talk with fellow anglers on and have great discussions with there passions as well. These Forums make a great opportunity to also make some great Friends and bring Great ideas to the fishing table or what we like to say "The Liars Table" LOL...
Well, I can say this, the Pike discussions will certainly not die out even if it is moved, us Pike anglers will find a way to continue to converse and have great discussions and continue to talk about great memories! I am proud to see that I am not the only person out there that has a sense of Pride and Passion for the Pike and the Tiger Muskie/Muskie. We need more people like those that are willing to speak out and not feel as if they have to play the politically correct card just to talk about their love for a particular fish. Well, I look forward to meeting more on here and also at tournaments in the future. Keep the lines tight and the fish on the lines!!! Have a good one.

Nate

[Rosann G]

Amx, the one really BIG difference between the Tiger Muskie and the Pike is that the Tiger Muskies are Sterile:bounce: and that is why they are being used by the WDFW as a tool to help manage the pike minnows and other junk fish in our lakes. They will die out in approximately 7-10 years if they are not restocked in a lake. Those of us that fish for Tigers know the difference when reading the forum but other people that drop in on the Tiger Muskie forum don't always know and can get confused when the discussions are all lumped together. I think having them seperated with a sub-forum for Pike will help. Thanks Mike!

[KUP]

It is good to be able to post all our opinions.
Here's mine: And I am posting this as just an angler, not a Board Member.
There have been assumptions made as to who requested the change. Be careful with your assumptions. You might be surprised.
Besides, this is Mike and Arron's property; people ask them things all the time: they have the final say. And I respect that.
I also respect the WDFW, who without, we don't have a single Tiger Muskie in the state. The Tiger is authorized and has proven itself safe. The Pike is still considered an invasive species and it's impact has proved devastating in other areas against Salmon and Trout fisheries. Is it good for the Tiger Muskie Clubs to have that at the top of every post on a Tiger Muskie sponsored page? Especially with the 2 Pike meetings coming up next week? Is it good to have the tiger muskie clubs embroiled in that dispute?
I don't understand that logic.
This new page means that whenever either of the Tiger Chapters want to post something about an upcoming event, the pike will ALWAYS trump it at the top of the page? Does that sound funny? Thought a "sub" forum meant under, not on top,

I always thought it would great if the Pike had their own Forum. Because, and I love saying this:
A Tiger is not a Pike and it is not a purebred muskie;
just like a MULE is not a donkey or a horse.
They are a unique hybrid unto themselves.
You would not see thoroughbreds being talked about on a Mule Forum, eh?

I would also like to mention that the Pike have some problems to overcome, as they have been the topic of 3 newspaper articles in the last week:

Seattle Times:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/r ... _pike.html

Seattle Times artical link

Vancouver Columbian:

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/apr/ ... t-columbia

Vancouver Colombian artical link

and the Sportsman Review:

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/a ... ke-fishing

Sportsman Review artical link

(Hope those links work)

There are honest concerns:
Just look at what has happened in Alaska:

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?ad ... pike.areas

Alaska artical link


It appears that the Pike want the respect that the Tiger Muskie has earned by being safe and non-invasive for 20 plus years. That may take time. And proof.
Hmmm...
To the muskie anglers: what do you think the feelings would be if someone took a special species of salmon back to Minnesota and Wisconsin and planted it and it decimated the muskie and walleye-pike, who reign as kings in the Midwest? Oh!
The fear is that the same may happen here, as what has happened in South-Central Alaska. We used to fly into the Interior above Fairbanks a lot when we lived there and the big pike were awesome and we loved to fish for them. But the game has changed and my love for pike has been tempered by concern for something bigger than pike or tigers: native salmon. As the enclosed Alaskan article reports: illegal planting of pike in non-native waters has made Chinook, Silvers and Rainbows extinct in some lakes in the region.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, that's what open forums are about. It is good to hear differing opinions;it is always good to look at the pros and the cons to get a well-rounded perspective.

If the pike ends up being a threat to the native salmon and trout in Washington, as is already being written about and has been witnessed by other states who have faced the same thing, you won't have to worry about this Forum; the powerful salmon community will have their say before this is all over....
So, it would be great if the Pike Anglers have their own Forum by then, if Mike is willing.

Jack T. worked hard to get the Tigers planted 20 years ago, plus. This feels like the pike issue is trying to ride-in on the coat tails of an authorized and safe (controllable) fish.
It would be very unfortunate if both species were labeled together and the Tigers faced some fallout because of the bad press. No one would want that. The waters ahead appear smooth for the Tiger Muskie Program.
I am not so sure for the Northern Pike.
If there is a battle coming forth from the salmon powers and their lobbyists
it would be poor form to bring that to the doorstep of the Tiger Program, that would be perceived as selfish. For sure a true ESOX fan would not want any fallout from pike problems to hurt the Tiger; separation may be the answer. Don't know.

Only the future will bare out the final result of the pike issue. Let's hope it is positive, for everyone's sake. Especially the salmon, our native king.
Thanks for listening to a different side of the coin.
I agree that WashingtonLakes is the best Fishing Forum website, anywhere and we are lucky to have them.
It must not be easy trying to keep all of us happy :bom:

In the meantime; Mike can do whatever he wants and I will respect any decision(s) he makes.
Even if he changes his mind 3 more times, lol. Go Mike!


edit: This ia amx, I made clickable links to the 4 articals Kup posted.

[Rich McVey]

I like the sub forum Mike. Much better

[sparky1doug]

The complexity the Northern Pike issue is mind boggling. Its apparent that Tiger Muskie issues are not the same as Pike issues. However many of Tiger Muskie club members fish for and catch both species. This has lead to friction privatly and regetably pubically among members. Not to mention the public questioning of a valued partner WDFW. I'm in favor of seperating them by forum but as DougW pointed out so well its the same people.